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In-reply-to » Speaking of UIs, this is how Thunderbird looks now:

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org

But it’s Windows, it doesn’t have a place in my heart.

The older I get, the more I’m glorifying anything pre XP. 😅 But that’s only because everything today is so horrible.

Well, not anything pre XP. 3.0 or newer would be nice, because Windows 2.x was still pretty bare bones:

https://movq.de/v/00162b9df8/

(OS/2 was great, though, except for the lack of a good file manager.)

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In-reply-to » @lyse In what way was KDE 3’s menu organized? KDE 1 is the only KDE version I ever used. 😅 We’re talking about this one, right?

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Ah, you mean the categorization. Yeah, that would never work in Windows, at least not without having a centralized package manager (so there’s one authoritative source of which program belongs into which category).

Oh wow, those Cassiopeias look pretty cool. Did you have one of those or one for each kid?

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In-reply-to » Speaking of UIs, this is how Thunderbird looks now:

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Yes, yes, yes and yes.

The start screen looks exactly like a website not a desktop application.

I mean, I find Motif also fairly ugly. Granted, it’s a hell lot more discoverable than anything today. The old Windows UIs probably had the best balances. But it’s Windows, it doesn’t have a place in my heart. So, I stick with good old KDE. ;-) That’s my nostalgia kicking in.

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In-reply-to » @lyse In what way was KDE 3’s menu organized? KDE 1 is the only KDE version I ever used. 😅 We’re talking about this one, right?

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Yes, this screenshot. However, not the Dutch but rather the German version, no wonder it looks so crazy!!1!11

It’s been a hot minute or two since I last used KDE, so I don’t remember exactly. I just vaguely recall that I found myself thinking multiple times that the KDE application categories were better matching or there were more or something like that. Most of my classmates were on Windows and had one giant long list of all sort of stuff in there. You even had to scroll in the menu. Sure, they installed all kind of garbage, which didn’t exactly help. Where in KDE, they were actually grouped by Office, Internet, Graphics, Multimedia, Games, etc. In Windows, applications usually hid themselves in a sub folder named after the software vendor. At least in the later (?) days.

I only used Win 95, 98 and XP at home. For maths class with computer algebra system (Maple), we had a Cassiopeia with Win CE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_Cassiopeia At school, there was probably also Win 2000, but I don’t know anymore for sure.

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Speaking of UIs, this is how Thunderbird looks now:

https://movq.de/v/a41105eebb/

So we continue to let every program make up its own UI style (and then we complain that “the Linux desktop” looks “messy” and “inconsistent”). I guess this uses GTK, but it doesn’t look like any other GTK program. Buttons, tabs, drop-downs, whatever, it’s all different. It even has its own subwindow system (i.e., popups that you can’t move).

I didn’t say this in the blog post, but I’m convinced that programmers these days absolutely positively hate everything that looks even remotely like Windows 95 or Motif – with a passion. I see that in my coworkers as well, they really can’t stand it. It’s an emotional thing.

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In-reply-to » @movq Regarding https://movq.de/blog/postings/2026-06-16/0/POSTING-en.html:

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org In what way was KDE 3’s menu organized? KDE 1 is the only KDE version I ever used. 😅 We’re talking about this one, right?

Isn’t Notepad++ and Python cheating!? :-D

Well, Python was certainly already a thing back then, but Notepad++ is from 2003, right. I think I used https://www.wintotal.de/download/proton/ at the time? Maybe? I don’t know. 😅

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@movq@www.uninformativ.de Regarding https://movq.de/blog/postings/2026-06-16/0/POSTING-en.html:

In my opinion, the KDE 3.5 menu was organized way better than the Windows Start menu. Granted, a typical KDE installation had much more applications to offer, too. So, there was more need to get it right. And it probably was also later in time.

Isn’t Notepad++ and Python cheating!? :-D

Crazy story on the clock’s seconds. I never heard of that before. Neat.

Yeah, UI these days is horrible. (That’s why my own TUIs suck, too!)

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The dairy farm has a new milk vending machine. The prices increased by 20%. One liter is now 1.20€ instead of 1.00€. But I don’t complain.

In a few meters of shrubs there were easily 50 butterflies. That was crazy, I’ve never seen this many in one spot. I should have taken a video.

The grain field in the beginning was looking so great. Crazy colorful and very yummy looking. I would have loved to take a bite. Or at least lie down right in the middle.

That was another great time in the outdoors. The 21°C were killing us, though. We were always glad when we reached a shady spot with a little breeze. I’m not gonna survive the 35°C later this week. :-(

https://lyse.isobeef.org/waldspaziergang-2026-06-15/

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In-reply-to » @lyse Is it this one? https://github.com/rivo/tview It’s almost 10 years old but hasn’t seen a 1.0.0 release yet? 🤔

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Interesting approach. 🤔

The master branch should never be in a broken state (apart from bugs I don’t know about). Any intermediate state during the development of a larger feature will happen in a different branch.

I mean, yeah, but … I don’t know, I like having “traditional releases” as a second safety net when I write programs. I like to let things mature for a while and then I cut a new release. So it’s, like, “we have a bunch of new features and fixes here, and to the best of my knowledge this works fine now”. But maybe I’m just paranoid. 🤔

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In-reply-to » @movq Yes. The author tries hard not to break existing code, but apparently he did this time. In his defense, it's not an official release, I just updated to master. Which is exactly what I always did in the past as there are no real versions (I even think that in one ticket he wrote years ago that master is always stable). That has finally changed a year ago, though: https://github.com/rivo/tview/releases/tag/v0.42.0

There: https://github.com/rivo/tview/issues/442#issuecomment-641898039

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In-reply-to » @lyse Is it this one? https://github.com/rivo/tview It’s almost 10 years old but hasn’t seen a 1.0.0 release yet? 🤔

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Yes. The author tries hard not to break existing code, but apparently he did this time. In his defense, it’s not an official release, I just updated to master. Which is exactly what I always did in the past as there are no real versions (I even think that in one ticket he wrote years ago that master is always stable). That has finally changed a year ago, though: https://github.com/rivo/tview/releases/tag/v0.42.0

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In-reply-to » Updated draft: http://movq.de/blog/drafts/changelog/POSTING-en.html

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Brilliant! Oh, I’m super happy to get it all wrong together with you. :-)

[Release notes] are meant for human beings, it’s a human-to-human interaction.

This is one of the most important messages. Absolute key, but misunderstood so often.

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In-reply-to » Every now and then, I think that I have carefully proof-read my message enough times and hit the "Add message" button in tt. But then, in the message tree, I spot another missed typo. My process is then to go to my twtxt.txt and fix it by hand. However, I still have to clean up tt's cache. This is rather tidious:

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Is it this one? https://github.com/rivo/tview It’s almost 10 years old but hasn’t seen a 1.0.0 release yet? 🤔

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In-reply-to » Oh boy, I absolutely hate this stupid trend of not writing changelogs anymore! Why the fuck would one seriously consider it to be a viable option to just let some shitty bot spew all merge requests on a goddamn GitHub release?! First of all, these merge request titles suck balls. The order of the changes in this "changelog" is completely random (well, probably merge time, which is as useless as the dick on the Pope). They are not grouped by anything at all. Additions, changes, removals, deprecations, etc. randomly mixed up in one giant list. And then "Add feature X", seventeen kilometers further down "Revert 'Add feature X'". Fuck you! Don't include this shit in the first place!

Updated draft: http://movq.de/blog/drafts/changelog/POSTING-en.html

I’ll probably publish this later today. Or maybe not at all. It’s one of those topics that might cause outrage because I’m getting it all wrong. 🤪

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In-reply-to » Oh boy, I absolutely hate this stupid trend of not writing changelogs anymore! Why the fuck would one seriously consider it to be a viable option to just let some shitty bot spew all merge requests on a goddamn GitHub release?! First of all, these merge request titles suck balls. The order of the changes in this "changelog" is completely random (well, probably merge time, which is as useless as the dick on the Pope). They are not grouped by anything at all. Additions, changes, removals, deprecations, etc. randomly mixed up in one giant list. And then "Add feature X", seventeen kilometers further down "Revert 'Add feature X'". Fuck you! Don't include this shit in the first place!

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Oh god, yeah. In other words: Devs need to think about who their target audience is. 😐

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In-reply-to » Oh boy, I absolutely hate this stupid trend of not writing changelogs anymore! Why the fuck would one seriously consider it to be a viable option to just let some shitty bot spew all merge requests on a goddamn GitHub release?! First of all, these merge request titles suck balls. The order of the changes in this "changelog" is completely random (well, probably merge time, which is as useless as the dick on the Pope). They are not grouped by anything at all. Additions, changes, removals, deprecations, etc. randomly mixed up in one giant list. And then "Add feature X", seventeen kilometers further down "Revert 'Add feature X'". Fuck you! Don't include this shit in the first place!

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I just ran across another thing. At least I personally couldn’t care less about CI infrastructure changes. Whether they’re using github action a or b or c or version v or w, it is not of my interest. At all. (It might be useful to estimate the supply chain attack risk, though.) If the maintainers want to include them in the changelog – and there are probably people to whom this information is crucial – it’s probably best to document CI infrastructure changes in their own section.

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In-reply-to » Oh boy, I absolutely hate this stupid trend of not writing changelogs anymore! Why the fuck would one seriously consider it to be a viable option to just let some shitty bot spew all merge requests on a goddamn GitHub release?! First of all, these merge request titles suck balls. The order of the changes in this "changelog" is completely random (well, probably merge time, which is as useless as the dick on the Pope). They are not grouped by anything at all. Additions, changes, removals, deprecations, etc. randomly mixed up in one giant list. And then "Add feature X", seventeen kilometers further down "Revert 'Add feature X'". Fuck you! Don't include this shit in the first place!

@movq@www.uninformativ.de You may want to include another antipattern to avoid in your article:

  • bump $same_dependency from 1.0.0 to 1.0.1
  • bump $same_dependency from 1.0.1 to 1.0.2
  • bump $same_dependency from 1.0.2 to 1.1.0
  • bump $same_dependency from 1.1.0 to 1.2.0

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In-reply-to » Every now and then, I think that I have carefully proof-read my message enough times and hit the "Add message" button in tt. But then, in the message tree, I spot another missed typo. My process is then to go to my twtxt.txt and fix it by hand. However, I still have to clean up tt's cache. This is rather tidious:

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Thank you very much! So, the concept is very similar. The root widget gets the input and can pass it to whatever child has the focus and so on.

My two main issues are the API design, that the input handler sometimes get an additional callback to notify the application about which element is focused, but sometimes not. And that focus switching sometimes just does not work as expected. Anyway.

As for rendering the selected button, I was also thinking about indicating it with some kind of border around it, square brackets seem to be a wonderful choice. :-)

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