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@prologic Thanks for writing that up!
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Sorry, youāre right, I should have used numbers!
Iām donāt understand what āpreserve the original hashā could mean other than āmake sure thereās still a twt in the feed with that hashā. Maybe the text could be clarified somehow.
Iām also not sure what you mean by markdown already being part of it. Of course people can already use Markdown, just like presumably nothing stopped people from using (twt subjects) before they were formally described. But itās not universal; e.g. as a jenny user I just see the plain text.
Had to build a list of all feeds (that I follow) and all twts in them and there are two collisions already:
$ ./stats
Saw 58263 hashes
7fqcxaa
https://twtxt.net/user/justamoment/twtxt.txt
https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt
ntnakqa
https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt
https://twtxt.net/user/thecanine/twtxt.txt
Namely:
$ jenny -D https://twtxt.net/user/justamoment/twtxt.txt | grep 7fqcxaa
[7fqcxaa] [2022-12-28 04:53:30+00:00] [(#pmuqoca) @prologic@twtxt.net I checked the GitHub discussion, it became a request to join forces.
Do you plan on having them join?
Also for the name, how about:
- āprogitā or āprologitā (prologic official hard fork)
- āgit-stanceā (git instance)
- āGitTreeā (Gitea inspired, maybe to related)
- āGitomataā (git automata)
- āGit.Sourceā
- āForgorā (forgit is taken so I forgor) š¤£
- āSweetGitā (as salty chat)
- āPepper Gitā (other ingredients) š
- āGitHeartā (core of git with a GitHub sounding name)
- āGitTakaā (With music in mind)
Ok, enough funā¦ Hope this helps sprout some ideas from others if nothing is to your taste.]
$ jenny -D https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/5 | grep 7fqcxaa
[7fqcxaa] [2022-02-25 21:14:45+00:00] [(#bqq6fxq) Itās handled by blue Monday]
And:
$ jenny -D https://twtxt.net/user/thecanine/twtxt.txt | grep ntnakqa
[ntnakqa] [2022-01-23 10:24:09+00:00] [(#2wh7r4q) <a href="https://yarn.girlonthemoon.xyz/external?uri=https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt">@prologic<em>@twtxt.net</em></a> I know, I was just hoping it might have also gotten fixed by that change, by some kind of backend miracles. š]
$ jenny -D https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/1 | grep ntnakqa
[ntnakqa] [2024-02-27 05:51:50+00:00] [(#otuupfq) <a href="https://yarn.girlonthemoon.xyz/external?uri=https://twtxt.net/user/shreyan/twtxt.txt">@shreyan<em>@twtxt.net</em></a> Ahh š]
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@prologic Do you have a link to some past discussion?
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@falsifian@www.falsifian.org Do you have specifics about the GRPD law about this?
Would the GDPR would apply to a one-person client like jenny? I seriously hope not. If someone asks me to delete an email they sent me, I donāt think I have to honour that request, no matter how European they are.
Iām not sure myself now. So letās find out whether parts of the GDPR actually apply to a truly decentralised system? š¤
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@prologic I wouldn't want my client to honour delete requests. I like my computer's memory to be better than mine, not worse, so it would bug me if I remember seeing something and my computer can't find it.
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@prologic@twtxt.net Do you have a link to some past discussion?
Would the GDPR would apply to a one-person client like jenny? I seriously hope not. If someone asks me to delete an email they sent me, I donāt think I have to honour that request, no matter how European they are.
I am really bothered by the idea that someone could force me to delete my private, personal record of my interactions with them. Would I have to delete my journal entries about them too if they asked?
Maybe a public-facing client like yarnd needs to consider this, but that also bothers me. I was actually thinking about making an Internet Archive style twtxt archiver, letting you explore past twts, including long-dead feeds, see edit histories, deleted twts, etc.
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I wrote some code to try out non-hash reply subjects formatted as (replyto ), while keeping the ability to use the existing hash style.
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@david@collantes.us Well, I wouldnāt recommend using my code for your main jenny use anyway. If you want to try it out, set XDG_CONFIG_HOME and XDG_CACHE_HOME to some sandbox directories and only run my code there. If @movq@www.uninformativ.de is interested in any of this getting upstreamed, Iād be happy to try rebasing the changes, but otherwise itās a proof of concept and fun exercise.
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I wrote some code to try out non-hash reply subjects formatted as (replyto ), while keeping the ability to use the existing hash style.
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@falsifian@www.falsifian.org this one hits hard, as jenny was just updated today. :ā-(
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I wrote some code to try out non-hash reply subjects formatted as (replyto ), while keeping the ability to use the existing hash style.
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BTW this code doesnāt incorporate existing twts into jennyās database. Itās best used starting from scratch. Iāve been testing it using a custom XDG_CACHE_HOME and XDG_CONFIG_HOME to avoid messing with my ārealā jenny data.
I wrote some code to try out non-hash reply subjects formatted as (replyto ), while keeping the ability to use the existing hash style.
I donāt think we need to decide all at once. If clients add support for a new method then people can use it if they like. The downside of course is that this costs developer time, so I decided to invest a few hours of my own time into a proof of concept.
With apologies to @movq@www.uninformativ.de for corrupting jennyās beautiful code. I donāt write this expecting you to incorporate the patch, because it does complicate things and might not be a direction you want to go in. But if you like any part of this approach feel free to use bits of it; I release the patch under jennyās current LICENCE.
Supporting both kinds of reply in jenny was complicated because each email can only have one Message-Id, and because itās possible the target twt will not be seen until after the twt referencing it. The following patch uses an sqlite database to keep track of known (url, timestamp) pairs, as well as a separate table of (url, timestamp) pairs that havenāt been seen yet but are wanted. When one of those āwantedā twts is finally seen, the mail file gets rewritten to include the appropriate In-Reply-To header.
Patch based on jenny commit 73a5ea81.
https://www.falsifian.org/a/oDtr/patch0.txt
Not implemented:
- Composing twts using the (replyto ā¦) format.
- Probably other important things Iām forgetting.
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@movq could it be possible to have
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compressed_subject(msg_singlelined) be configurable, so only a certain number of characters get displayed, ending on ellipses? Right now the entire twtxt is crammed into the Subject:. This request aims to make twtxts display on mutt/neomutt, etc. more like emails do.
I mean, really, it couldnāt get any better. I love it!
I have configured my twtxt.txt as simple as possible. I have setup a publish_command on jenny. Hopefully all works fine, and I am good to go. Next will be setting the announce_me to true. Here we go!
Hey, @movq@www.uninformativ.de, a tiny thing to add to jenny, a -v switch. That way when you twtxt āThatās an older format that was used before jenny version v23.04ā, I can go and run jenny -v, and āduh!ā myself on the way to a git pull. :-D
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Regarding jenny development: There have been enough changes in the last few weeks, imo. I want to let things settle for a while (potential bugfixes aside) and then Iām going to cut a new release.
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@movq@www.uninformativ.de to paraphrase US Presidents speech on each State of the Union, āthe State of the Jenny is strong!ā :-D As for the potential upcoming changes, there has to be a knowledgeable head honcho that will agglomerate and coalesce, and guide onto the direction that will be taken. All that with the strong input from the developers that will be implementing the changes, and a lesser (but not less valuable) input from users.
Regarding jenny development: There have been enough changes in the last few weeks, imo. I want to let things settle for a while (potential bugfixes aside) and then Iām going to cut a new release.
And I guess the release after that is going to include all the threading/hashing stuff ā if we can decide on one of the proposals. š
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Could someone knowledgable reply with the steps a grandpa will take to calculate the hash of a twtxt from the CLI, using out-of-the-box tools? I swear I read about it somewhere, but can't find it.
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@prologic@twtxt.net I just realised the jenny also does what I want, as of latest commit. Simply use jenny --debug-feed <feed url>, and it will do what I wanted too!
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So yeah no, whilst it technically works, neither
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jenny nor yarnd support it very well. Only at a very basic level.
@prologic@twtxt.net sorry but nope. Neither jenny, nor yarnd supports it at all. This was treated as a thread because I picked one of @falsifian@www.falsifian.orgās twtxts (with the āold subjectā), and replied to it (hence starting the thread).
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(replyto http://darch.dk/twtxt.txt 2024-09-15T12:50:17Z) Hmm, but yarnd also isn't showing these twts as being part of a thread. @prologic you said yarnd respects customs subjects. Shouldn't these twts count as having a custom subject, and get threaded together?
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So yeah no, whilst it technically works, neither jenny nor yarnd support it very well. Only at a very basic level.
@sorenpeter@darch.dk I like this idea. Just for fun, Iām using a variant in this twt. (Also because Iām curious how it non-hash subjects appear in jenny and yarn.)
URLs can contain commas so I suggest a different character to separate the url from the date. Is this twt Iāve used space (also after āreplytoā, for symmetry).
I think this solves:
- Changing feed identities: although @mckinley@twtxt.net points out URLs can change, I think this syntax should be okay as long as the feed at that URL can be fetched, and as long as the current canonical URL for the feed lists this one as an alternate.
- editing, if you donāt care about message integrity
- finding the root of a thread, if youāre not following the author
An optional hash could be added if message integrity is desired. (E.g. if you donāt trust the feed author not to make a misleading edit.) Other recent suggestions about how to deal with edits and hashes might be applicable then.
People publishing multiple twts per second should include sub-second precision in their timestamps. As you suggested, the timestamp could just be copied verbatim.
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@quark At the moment, the twt in question exists in the sixth archive:
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@movq@www.uninformativ.de I didnāt run the command as you recommended, but, I wiped things once more, and ran jenny -f, and this time got:
david@arrakis:~$ jenny -f
Fetching archived feed https://anthony.buc.ci/user/abucci/twtxt.txt/1 (configured as abucci, https://anthony.buc.ci/user/abucci/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2024-04.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://darch.dk/twtxt-archive.txt (configured as soren, https://darch.dk/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2024-04-21_6v47cua.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/1 (configured as prologic, https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2024-03.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2022-12-21_2us6qbq.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/2 (configured as prologic, https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2024-02.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2022-01-14_ew5gzca.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/3 (configured as prologic, https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2024-01.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-12-23_f6y65bq.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/4 (configured as prologic, https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-12.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-12-04_e4x7yba.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/5 (configured as prologic, https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-11.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-11-18_42tjxba.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/6 (configured as prologic, https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-10.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-11-08_i2wnvaa.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-09.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-10-23_kvwn5oa.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-08.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-10-11_mljudaa.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-07.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-09-22_5mkqwua.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-06.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-07-27_xcnzmlq.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-05.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-06-16_mtedqya.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-04.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-04-29_z7lvzja.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-03.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-03-19_xjabvhq.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-02.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-02-24_te4a6oa.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-01.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-01-26_qxgigma.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-12.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2020-12-13_igfnala.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-11.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-10.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-09.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-08.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-07.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-06.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-05.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-04.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-03.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-02.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-01.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-12.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-11.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-10.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-09.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-08.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-07.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-06.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-05.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-04.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-03.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-02.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-01.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2020-12.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Notice that @prologic@twtxt.netās /6 is there. I found the twtxt then. Kind of odd it didnāt show before.
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@quark
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@quark@ferengi.one At the moment, the twt in question exists in the sixth archive:
$ jenny -D https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/6 | head
[o6dsrga] [2020-07-18 12:39:52+00:00] [Hello World! š]
Does that work for you? š¤
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This scheme also only support threading off a specific Twt of someone's feed. What if you're not replying to anyone in particular?
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@prologic@twtxt.net Yeah, that thing with (#hash;#originalHash) would also work.
Maybe Iām being a bit too purist/minimalistic here. As I said before (in one of the 1372739 posts on this topic ā or maybe I didnāt even send that twt, I donāt remember š
), I never really liked hashes to begin with. They arenāt super hard to implement but they are kind of against the beauty of the original twtxt ā because you need special client support for them. Itās not something that you could write manually in your twtxt.txt file. With @sorenpeter@darch.dkās proposal, though, that would be possible.
I donāt know ā¦ maybe itās just me. š„“
Iām also being a bit selfish, to be honest: Implementing (#hash;#originalHash) in jenny for editing your own feed would not be a no-brainer. (Editing is already kind of unsupported, actually.) It wouldnāt be a problem to implement it for fetching other peopleās feeds, though.
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@quark
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@movq@www.uninformativ.de I did the same. jenny fetches archives, yes, but that twtxt I am referring about is no longer. If you fetch it, but I donāt, there is certainly something going onā¦
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(#o) @prologic this was your first twtxt. Cool! :-P
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Since
jennycanāt fetch archived twtxts
I wiped my entire maildir and re-fetched everything. I did that recently because @aelaraji@aelaraji.com asked me to š , but I guess I also did this back in 2023.
What did you do to make yours work?
jenny does fetch archived feeds during the normal jenny -f operation. Only when using the recently implemented --fetch-context, archived feeds are not fetched (yet). That was an oversight and I intend to fix that.
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(#o) @prologic this was your first twtxt. Cool! :-P
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@movq@www.uninformativ.de I figured it will be something like this, yet, you were able to reply just fine, and I wasnāt. Looking at your twtxt.txt I see this line:
2024-09-16T17:37:14+00:00 (#o6dsrga) @<prologic https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt>
@<quark https://ferengi.one/twtxt.txt> This is what I get. š¤
Which is using the right hash. Mine, on the other hand, when I replied to the original, old style message (Message-Id: <o6dsrga>), looks like this:
2024-09-16T16:42:27+00:00 (#o) @<prologic https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt> this was your first twtxt. Cool! :-P
What did you do to make yours work? I simply went to the oldest @prologic@twtxt.netās entry on my Maildir, and replied to it (jenny set the reply-to hash to #o, even though the Message-Id is o6dsrga). Since jenny canāt fetch archived twtxts, how could I go to re-fetch everything? And, most importantly, would re-fetching fix the Message-Id:?
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Hmm... I replied to this message:
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This is how my original message shows up on jenny:
From: quark <quark>
Subject: (#o) @prologic this was your first twtxt. Cool! :-P
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2024 12:42:27 -0400
Message-Id: <k7imvia@twtxt>
X-twtxt-feed-url: https://ferengi.one/twtxt.txt
(#o) @<prologic https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt> this was your first twtxt. Cool! :-P
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Something odd just happened to my twtxt timeline... A bunch of twts dissapered, others were marked to be deleted in mutt. so I nuked my whole twtxt Maildir and deleted my ~/.cache/jenny in order to start with a fresh Pull. I pulled feed as usual. Now like HALF the twts aren't there š even my my last replay. WTF IS GOING ON? š¤£š¤£š¤£
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@movq@www.uninformativ.de I wiped both ~/.cache/jenny and my maildir_target when I tried to reset things. Still got wrecked š
If itās not too much to ask, could you backup or/change your maildir_target and give it a try with an empty directory?
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The tag URI scheme looks interesting. I like that it human read- and writable. And since we already got the timestamp in the twtxt.txt it would be somewhat trivial to parse. But there are still the issue with what the name/id should be... Maybe it doesn't have to bee that stick?
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(replyto:http://darch.dk/twtxt.txt,2024-09-15T12:06:27Z)
I think I like this a lot. š¤
The problem with using hashes always was that theyāre āone-directionalā: You can construct a hash from URL + timestamp + twt, but you cannot do the inverse. When I see ā, I have no idea what that could possibly refer to.
But of course something like (replyto:http://darch.dk/twtxt.txt,2024-09-15T12:06:27Z) has all the information you need. This could simplify twt/feed discovery quite a bit, couldnāt it? š¤ That thing that I just implemented ā jenny asking some Yarn pod for some twt hash ā would not be necessary anymore. Clients could easily and automatically fetch complete threads instead of requiring the user to follow all relevant feeds.
Only using the timestamp to identify a twt also solves the edit problem.
It even is better for non-Yarn clients, because you now donāt have to read, understand, and implement a ātwt hash specificationā before you can reply to someone.
The only problem, really, is that (replyto:http://darch.dk/twtxt.txt,2024-09-15T12:06:27Z) is so long. Clients would have to try harder to hide this. š
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Done and done! everything is back to normal! š„³
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@aelaraji@aelaraji.com So what is it about @sorenpeter@darch.dkās feed thatās screwed with your client? (Jenny?) š¤ Kind of curious now š¤£
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Something odd just happened to my twtxt timeline... A bunch of twts dissapered, others were marked to be deleted in mutt. so I nuked my whole twtxt Maildir and deleted my ~/.cache/jenny in order to start with a fresh Pull. I pulled feed as usual. Now like HALF the twts aren't there š even my my last replay. WTF IS GOING ON? š¤£š¤£š¤£
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FIX: Temporarily removed sorenpeterās twtxt link from my follow list, whipped my twtxt Maildir and jenny Cache. Only then I was able to fetch everything as usual (I think). Now Iāll backup things and see what happens if I pull sorenpeterās feed.
No keyboards were harmed during this experimentā¦ yet.
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Something odd just happened to my twtxt timeline... A bunch of twts dissapered, others were marked to be deleted in mutt. so I nuked my whole twtxt Maildir and deleted my ~/.cache/jenny in order to start with a fresh Pull. I pulled feed as usual. Now like HALF the twts aren't there š even my my last replay. WTF IS GOING ON? š¤£š¤£š¤£
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@aelaraji@aelaraji.com no, it is not just you. Do fetch the parent with jenny, and you will see there are two messages with different hash. Soren did something funky, for sure.
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Something odd just happened to my twtxt timeline... A bunch of twts dissapered, others were marked to be deleted in mutt. so I nuked my whole twtxt Maildir and deleted my ~/.cache/jenny in order to start with a fresh Pull. I pulled feed as usual. Now like HALF the twts aren't there š even my my last replay. WTF IS GOING ON? š¤£š¤£š¤£
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@quark@ferengi.one here is an example: This Thread is not showing up in Mutt š¤ Something is off!
Iāll set up jenny and mutt on another computer and see how it goes from there.
Something odd just happened to my twtxt timelineā¦ A bunch of twts dissapered, others were marked to be deleted in mutt. so I nuked my whole twtxt Maildir and deleted my ~/.cache/jenny in order to start with a fresh Pull. I pulled feed as usual. Now like HALF the twts arenāt there š even my my last replay. WTF IS GOING ON? š¤£š¤£š¤£
Alright, I saw enough broken threads lately to be motivated enough to extend the --fetch-context thingy: It can now ask Yarn pods for twt hashes.
https://www.uninformativ.de/git/jenny/commit/eefd3fa09083e2206ed0d71887d2ef2884684a71.html
This is only done as a last resort if thereās no other way to find the missing twt. Like, when thereās a twt that begins with just a hash and no user mention, thereās no way for jenny to know on which feed that twt can be found, so itāll ask some Yarn pod in that case.
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@sorenpeter !! I freaking love your Timeline ... I kind of have an justified PHP phobia š
but, I'm definitely thinking about giving it a try!
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@prologic@twtxt.net š¤Æ HOLLY! ā¦ Iām definitely adding this to my Jennyās publish_command script!! THANK YOU! Now my website has TWO pages instead of just a boring one š
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(#mp6ox4a) @cuaxolotl Ah, thanks for reporting back! Okay, so youāre basically manually ācrawlingā feeds right now. š¤ What do you think about the idea of adding something like
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# follow_notify = gemini://foo/bar to your feedās metadata, so that clients who follow you can ping that URL every now and then? How would you even notice that, do you regularly read your gemini logs? š¤
@prologic@twtxt.net Unfortunately it only work if I pull the feed in debug mode jenny -D otherwise, it misses things up if I add that snippet of text to links in my .config/jenny/follow file š
Anyway, it was a nice try.
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(#mp6ox4a) @cuaxolotl Ah, thanks for reporting back! Okay, so youāre basically manually ācrawlingā feeds right now. š¤ What do you think about the idea of adding something like
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# follow_notify = gemini://foo/bar to your feedās metadata, so that clients who follow you can ping that URL every now and then? How would you even notice that, do you regularly read your gemini logs? š¤
@movq@www.uninformativ.de @prologic@twtxt.net Hey! I may have found a silly trick to announce my following to people hosting their feeds on the Gemini space using the requested URI itself instead of relaying on the USER Agent š. Iāve copied my current feed over to my (to be) Gemlog for testing. And if I do a jenny -D "gemini://gem.aelaraji.com/twtxt.txt?follower=aelaraji@https://aelaraji.com/twtxt.txt" and this happens:
A) As a follower, I get the feed as usual.
B) As the feed owner, I get this in logs:
hostname:1965 - āgemini://gem.aelaraji.com/twtxt.txt?follower=aelaraji@https://aelaraji.com/twtxt.txtā 20 ātext/plain;lang=en-USā
You could do the same for Gopher feeds but only if you want to announce yourself by throwing in an error in their logs, then youāll need a second request to fetch the feed. jenny -D "gopher://gopher.aelaraji.com/twtxt.txt&follower=aelaraji@https:/aelaraji.com/twtxt.txt" gave me this :
gopher.aelaraji.com:70 - [09/Sep/2024:22:08:54 +0000] āGET 0/twtxt.txt&follower=aelaraji@https:/aelaraji.com/twtxt.txt HTTP/1.0ā 404 0 āā āUnknown gopher clientā
NB: the follower=... string wonāt appear in gopher logs after a ? but if I replace it with a + or a & and it works. There will be a missing / after the https:. Probably a client thing.
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@prologic Some criticisms and a possible alternative direction:
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@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org This looks like a nice way to do it.
Another thought: if clients canāt agree on the url (for example, if we switch to this new way, but some old clients still do it the old way), that could be mitigated by computing many hashes for each twt: one for every url in the feed. So, if a feed has three URLs, every twt is associated with three hashes when it comes time to put threads together.
A client stills need to choose one url to use for the hash when composing a reply, but this might add some breathing room if thereās a period when clients are doing different things.
(From what I understand of jenny, this would be difficult to implement there since each pseudo-email can only have one msgid to match to the in-reply-to headers. I donāt know about other clients.)
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I guess I can configure neomutt to hide the feeds I don't care about.
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The actual end-user problem is that I canāt see the thread properly when using neomutt+jenny.
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I guess I can configure neomutt to hide the feeds I don't care about.
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@prologic@twtxt.net One of your twts begins with (#st3wsda): https://twtxt.net/twt/bot5z4q
Based on the twtxt.net web UI, it seems to be in reply to a twt by @cuaxolotl@sunshinegardens.org which begins āIāve been sketching outā¦ā.
But jenny thinks the hash of that twt is 6mdqxrq. At least, thereās a very twt in their feed with that hash that has the same text as appears on yarn.social (except with ā instead of ā).
Based on this, it appears jenny and yarnd disagree about the hash of the twt, or perhaps the twt was edited (though I canāt see any difference, assuming ā vs ā is just a rendering choice).
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I guess I can configure neomutt to hide the feeds I don't care about.
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@movq@www.uninformativ.de Thanks, it works!
But when I tried it out on a twt from @prologic@twtxt.net, I discovered jenny and yarn.social seem to disagree about the hash of this twt: https://twtxt.net/twt/st3wsda . jenny assigned it a hash of 6mdqxrq but the URL and prologicās reply suggest yarn.social thinks the hash is st3wsda. (And as a result, jenny āfetch-context didnāt work on prologicās twt.)
Iām SO enjoying the new jenny --fetch-context š
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I guess I can configure neomutt to hide the feeds I don't care about.
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@falsifian@www.falsifian.org have you tried jennyās fetch-context branch? It works great!
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@movq, maybe you can help me with this. I want to place the
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vim cursor at the end of the first line on replies, and forks. I have tried adding to this to jenny's configuration:
@movq@www.uninformativ.de hmm, I am already using au BufNewFile,BufRead jenny-posting.eml setl completefunc=jenny#CompleteMentions fo-=t wrap, from jenny. How would I go to incorporate that there?
@movq@www.uninformativ.de, maybe you can help me with this. I want to place the vim cursor at the end of the first line on replies, and forks. I have tried adding to this to jennyās configuration:
"editor": "vim \"+normal $\"",
But that doesnāt work. How would you go about it?
Because I saw the nick on movq (@prologic@twtxt.net, canāt mention anyone outside this pod, by the way), I looked the user up: https://tilde.pt/~marado/twtxt.txt. I wonder if the āhashesā they are using will work out of the box with jenny.
Talking about jenny, going to play with the latest now. Tata! :-)
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@movq Is there a good way to get jenny to do a one-off fetch of a feed, for when you want to fill in missing parts of a thread? I just added @slashdot to my private follow file just because @prologic keeps responding to the feed :-P and I want to know what he's commenting on even though I don't want to see every new slashdot twt.
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@falsifian@www.falsifian.org @bender@twtxt.net I pushed an alternative implementation to the fetch-context branch. This integrates the whole thing into mutt/jenny.
You will want to configure a new mutt hotkey, similar to the āreplyā hotkey:
macro index,pager <esc>C "\
<enter-command> set my_pipe_decode=\$pipe_decode nopipe_decode<Enter>\
<pipe-message> jenny -c<Enter>\
<enter-command> set pipe_decode=\$my_pipe_decode; unset my_pipe_decode<Enter>" \
"Try to fetch context of current twt, like a missing root twt"
This pipes the mail to jenny -c. jenny will try to find the thread hash and the URL and then fetch it. (If thereās no URL or if the specific twt cannot be found in that particular feed, it could query a Yarn pod. That is not yet implemented, though.)
The whole thing looks like this:
https://movq.de/v/0d0e76a180/jenny.mp4
In other words, when thereās a missing root twt, you press a hotkey to fetch it, done.
I think I like this version better. š¤
(This needs a lot of testing. š)
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@bender My index formatting is intact, probably because I still haven't figured out how to set up my terminal to show RTL text correctly! š
but hey, that won't be a problem anymore, I don't feel like twting in Arabic. Sorry for the inconvenience.
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youāll probably get an Error 1011 š¤¦ ā¦ just copy and paste the link in a new tab if you can Screenshot of neomutt running Jenny
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Ų„ŲŲŖŲ³ ŁŁŁŲŖŁ ŲØŲ³ŁŲ§Ł
āš
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@bender@twtxt.net My index formatting is intact, probably because I still havenāt figured out how to set up my terminal to show RTL text correctly! š but hey, that wonāt be a problem anymore, I donāt feel like twting in Arabic. Sorry for the inconvenience.
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@movq Is there a good way to get jenny to do a one-off fetch of a feed, for when you want to fill in missing parts of a thread? I just added @slashdot to my private follow file just because @prologic keeps responding to the feed :-P and I want to know what he's commenting on even though I don't want to see every new slashdot twt.
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@movq@www.uninformativ.de I donāt know if Iād want to discard the twts. I think what Iām looking for is a command ājenny -g https://host.org/twtxt.txtā to fetch just that one feed, even if itās not in my follow list. I could wrap that in a shell script so that when I see a twt in reply to a feed I donāt follow, I can just tap a key and the feed will get added to my maildir. I guess the script would look for a mention at the start of a selected twt and call jenny -g on the feed.
@movq@www.uninformativ.de Is there a good way to get jenny to do a one-off fetch of a feed, for when you want to fill in missing parts of a thread? I just added @slashdot@feeds.twtxt.net to my private follow file just because @prologic@twtxt.net keeps responding to the feed :-P and I want to know what heās commenting on even though I donāt want to see every new slashdot twt.