https://twtxt.net/twt/nbl4xfq

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org @prologic@twtxt.net 😆 There was something weird going on with my #Timeline instance, the text input box was visible even though I was logged out and I was able to twt from it … It has to do with cache because it wouldn’t disappear unless I whip my website’s cache from the browser.

Poke @sorenpeter@darch.dk and @eapl.me@eapl.me I have no Idea how to reproduce this.

It seems related to us poor single user pods not getting the trust to share twts.. which it seems to still untrust on restart for me.

@movq, @prologic@twtxt.net when navigating to a Yarn. If the head twt is missing then the whole thread is not accessible. It only returns an error. so i have no way to view any of the replies within the thread other than the end twt.

Or using the same twt hash method, but only for the URL, to generate the nick, if it doesn’t exist, like so, @5vxo4ia@twtxt.net

Lol why you and bender twts are rendered but my with simular content are skipp3d? Upd: nevermind, i’m dumb, my twt are created in future because i type date -iS and replaces +03:00 with Z: https://twtxt.net/twt/yctmi7a

@doesnmppsflt@doesnm.p.psf.lt Not sure which bug you’re referring to. 🤔 (Did I forget?)

Those long IDs like (#113797927355322708) are simply part of that feed. Looks like the author just dumps ActivityPub IDs into twtxt. I think this used to work in the past, but the corresponding spec (https://twtxt.dev/exts/hash-tag.html) has been deprecated and jenny doesn’t support – actually, jenny never supported that.

jenny can only group threads by exactly one criterium (because it writes a Message-ID into the mail file) and that’s the regular twt hash. So, anything else, like people doing “#CoolTopic”, isn’t possible.

I’m still making progress with the Emacs client. I’m proud to say that the code that is responsible for reading the feeds is almost finished, including: Twt Hash Extension, Twt Subject Extension, Multiline Extension and Metadata Extension. I’m fine-tuning some tests and will soon do the first buffer that displays the twts.

@bmallred@staystrong.run did you rotate your twtxt file or something happened to your twts? 🤔 asking just in case…

hmm… apparently the invalid twts are the latest ones I’d posted from Timeline but highly probably because I’d tried to restore them manually, after unintentionally overriding my twtxt file with one that was out of date 🤦

Want this API for Goryon or just Goryon with support to just twtxt.txt. I can’t read timeline without visible replies and missing twts

Shi… I forgot to pull my twtxt file before twtin’ … let me see if I can recover them lost timeline twts.

Showing my nephew around linux… and what’s a better example of text editing in terminal than an actual twt? eh? 😆

well, the extension helps to know the file format as in .txt and .html, perhaps .twt, he!

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt I sent that mention manually for a demonstration as mentioned in the previous twt. Used the curl method.

@prologic@twtxt.net There’s always my log.html page if it helps… and while we’re still at it here’s the other twt #z2ymlkq for reference ;)

@prologic@twtxt.net I bet our twts are already being fed to circuit monsters… Remember the other day when I’d snapped out about some nonsense, being an A-Hole and what not? I’ve seen an AI company employee lurking around with not much interaction (if I’m not mistaken), so my mind went on auto-pilot mode thinking “This !#@%$ must be feeding us to the circuit peggy monster!! Arrr 😤” 🤣🤣🤣 but then again, one shouldn’t judge a book by it’s cover (or an employee by his title) right?

@quark@ferengi.one What would happen if I replayed to this twt from the future, when I’m still in it’s relative past? 🤔

I wish I could view source twts like this to know if the root was not found and this was actually in reply to something i cant see.

Image

I ended up deploying an OpenGist instead! unlike MicroBin, the whole things went smoother than posting a twt 😆

I guess I should setup some kind of past-bin or something, I bet somebody’s already angry about them last couple of long twts 😅 Sorry, not sorry! but I’ll try to fix that.

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com You could use https://lyse.isobeef.org/tmp/twthash.py to generate twt hashes. I cobbled that together in order to generate test data for my client.

@bender@twtxt.net highly probably, unless I learn go and implement it myself (or someone else more capable does) … but I’m so lazy I’d just copy them from twtxt.net and call it a day xD and yeah, it’s kinda rough the way things are…

• I don’t see a way to follow others, all I can do is go to the /feeds URI for a list of the server’s users/feeds.
  
• I still couldn’t figure out how to get a direct link to a user’s twtxt file, curling /feeds/usernick spits out a list of the user usernick twts, so I guess you could use that to follow them.
  
• no way to add in your # nick = usernick / # url = proto://domain.ltd/path/to/twtxt.txt …etc. Probably because that wasn’t part of the spec back then?
  

So yeah, it would make for a nice project while learning Go. :P

I’m getting way too comfortable with editing twts and fixing Eff’ ups… I gotta stop auto-syncing my twtxt file, at least I’ll have a breathing room for quick fixes when needed. I know, Michael Lucas might not approve of this but, I wouldn’t want the @yarn_police@twtxt.net in the middle of the night, right?

Ok, I’ve restored the misplaced twts … let’s just hope I didn’t make things worst xD

@bender@twtxt.net Haha! I assume you can’t see the original twt, let me quote for you so you know what I’m responding to:

2024-11-20T07:56:00-06:00 (#gjhq2xq) Hey! I tried running Timeline on my server with the default PHP version (8.3) and it’s giving me a few errors https://eapl.me/timeline/ I should be sending a PR soon to fix it ;)
source: eaplme’s twtxt file.

@eapl.me@eapl.me adding public $timestamp; to the class Twt in libs/twtxt.php (line 25) fixed that for me but probably broken something else 😅 …

My bad! My editor was set to use 4 spaces instead of a tab… Making twts by hand is hard =P

@bender@twtxt.net @movq@www.uninformativ.de exactly! 😂 I accidentally duplicated a twt and deleted it as fast as I can, hoping nobody pulled the feed by then.

@bender@twtxt.net > which feed of his are you following? the .mx or the .me one? I was replaying to THIS TWT

@bender@twtxt.net So turns out something is setting my HashingURI to the value {{ .Profile.URI }} and that is making my hashes wrong so it cannot delete or edit twts.

So helpful 😮‍💨

Error: Error deleting last twt

Can I edit this twt?

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org

Regarding section 4 about feed discovery: Yeah, non-HTTP transport protocols are an issue as they do not have User-Agent headers. How exactly do you envision the discovery_url to work, though?

This is from a twt of mine from January 2022:

https://www.uninformativ.de/files/twtxt/2022%2D01%2D22%2D%2Dfollow%2Dendpoint.md

(This idea gets lost all the time, so I put it into a file now. 😅)

Not sure if this is what @eapl.me@eapl.me had in mind, obviously.

Thank you, @eapl.me@eapl.me! No need to apologize in the introduction, all good. :-)

Section 3: I’m a bit on the fence regarding documenting the HTTP caching headers. It’s a very general HTTP thing, so there is nothing special about them for twtxt. No need for the Twtxt Specification to actually redo it. But on the other hand, a short hint could certainly help client developers and feed authors. Maybe it’s thanks to my distro’s Ngninx maintainer, but I did not configure anything for the Last-Modified and ETag headers to be included in the response, the web server just already did it automatically.

The more that I think about it while typing this reply, the more I think your recommendation suggestion is actually really great. It will definitely beneficial for client developers. In almost all client implementation cases I’d say one has to actually do something specifically in the code to send the If-Modified-Since and/or If-None-Match request headers. There is no magic that will do it automatically, as one has to combine data from the last response with the new request.

But I also came across feeds that serve zero response headers that make caching possible at all. So, an explicit recommendation enables feed authors to check their server setups. Yeah, let’s absolutely do this! :-)

Regarding section 4 about feed discovery: Yeah, non-HTTP transport protocols are an issue as they do not have User-Agent headers. How exactly do you envision the discovery_url to work, though? I wouldn’t limit the transports to HTTP(S) in the Twtxt Specification, though. It’s up to the client to decide which protocols it wants to support.

Since I currently rely on buckket’s twtxt client to fetch the feeds, I can only follow http(s):// (and file://) feeds. But in tt2 I will certainly add some gopher:// and gemini:// at some point in time.

Some time ago, @movq@www.uninformativ.de found out that some Gopher/Gemini users prefer to just get an e-mail from people following them: https://twtxt.net/twt/dikni6q So, it might not even be something to be solved as there is no problem in the first place.

Section 5 on protocol support: You’re right, announcing the different transports in the url metadata would certainly help. :-)

Section 7 on emojis: Your idea of TUI/CLI avatars is really intriguing I have to say. Maybe I will pick this up in tt2 some day. :-)

@eapl.me@eapl.me Neat.

So for twt metadata the lextwt parser currently supports values in the form [key=value]

https://git.mills.io/yarnsocial/go-lextwt/src/branch/main/parser_test.go#L692-L698

@eapl.me@eapl.me here are my replies (somewhat similar to Lyse’s and James’)

1. Metadata in twts: Key=value is too complicated for non-hackers and hard to write by hand. So if there is a need then we should just use #NSFS or the alt-text file in markdown image syntax ![NSFW](url.to/image.jpg) if something is NSFW

2. IDs besides datetime. When you edit a twt then you should preserve the datetime if location-based addressing should have any advantages over content-based addressing. If you change the timestamp the its a new post. Just like any other blog cms.

3. Caching, Yes all good ideas, but that is more a task for the clients not the serving of the twtxt.txt files.

4. Discovery: User-agent for discovery can become better. I’m working on a wrapper script in PHP, so you don’t need to go to Apaches log-files to see who fetches your feed. But for other Gemini and gopher you need to relay on something else. That could be using my webmentions for twtxt suggestion, or simply defining an email metadata field for letting a person know you follow their feed. Interesting read about why WebMetions might be a bad idea. Twtxt being much simple that a full featured IndieWeb sites, then a lot of the concerns does not apply here. But that’s the issue with any open inbox. This is hard to solve without some form of (centralized or community) spam moderation.

5. Support more protocols besides http/s. Yes why not, if we can make clients that merge or diffident between the same feed server by multiples URLs

6. Languages: If the need is big then make a separate feed. I don’t mind seeing stuff in other langues as it is low. You got translating tool if you need to know whats going on. And again when there is a need for easier switching between posting to several feeds, then it’s about building clients with a UI that makes it easy. No something that should takes up space in the format/protocol.

7. Emojis: I’m not sure what this is about. Do you want to use emojis as avatar in CLI clients or it just about rendering emojis?

Righto, @eapl.me@eapl.me, ta for the writeup. Here we go. :-)

Metadata on individual twts are too much for me. I do like the simplicity of the current spec. But I understand where you’re coming from.

Numbering twts in a feed is basically the attempt of generating message IDs. It’s an interesting idea, but I reckon it is not even needed. I’d simply use location based addressing (feed URL + ‘#’ + timestamp) instead of content addressing. If one really wanted to, one could hash the feed URL and timestamp, but the raw form would actually improve disoverability and would not even require a richer client. But the majority of twtxt users in the last poll wanted to stick with content addressing.

yarnd actually sends If-Modified-Since request headers. Not only can I observe heaps of 304 responses for yarnds in my access log, but in Cache.FetchFeeds(…) we can actually see If-Modified-Since being deployed when the feed has been retrieved with a Last-Modified response header before: https://git.mills.io/yarnsocial/yarn/src/commit/98eee5124ae425deb825fb5f8788a0773ec5bdd0/internal/cache.go#L1278

Turns out etags with If-None-Match are only supported when yarnd serves avatars (https://git.mills.io/yarnsocial/yarn/src/commit/98eee5124ae425deb825fb5f8788a0773ec5bdd0/internal/handlers.go#L158) and media uploads (https://git.mills.io/yarnsocial/yarn/src/commit/98eee5124ae425deb825fb5f8788a0773ec5bdd0/internal/media_handlers.go#L71). However, it ignores possible etags when fetching feeds.

I don’t understand how the discovery URLs should work to replace the User-Agent header in HTTP(S) requests. Do you mind to elaborate?

Different protocols are basically just a client thing.

I reckon it’s best to just avoid mixing several languages in one feed in the first place. Personally, I find it okay to occasionally write messages in other languages, but if that happens on a more regularly basis, I’d definitely create a different feed for other languages.

Isn’t the emoji thing “just” a client feature? So, feed do not even have to state any emojis. As a user I’d configure my client to use a certain symbol for feed ABC. Currently, I can do a similar thing in tt where I assign colors to feeds. On the other hand, what if a user wants to control what symbol should be displayed, similar to the feed’s nick? Hmm. But still, my terminal font doesn’t even render most of emojis. So, Unicode boxes everywhere. This makes me think it should actually be a only client feature.

Oh! a new feed to follow! Welcome in @wbknl@twtxt.net 👋 looking forward to reading your twts!

@bender@twtxt.net Here #sgvko5a 😁

@Codebuzz@www.codebuzz.nl I use Jenny to add to a local copy of my twtxt.txt file, and then manually push it to my web servers. I prefer timestamps to end with “Z” rather than “+00:00” so I modified Jenny to use that format. I mostly follow conversations using Jenny, but sometimes I check twtxt.net, which could catch twts I missed.

@bender@twtxt.net I try to avoid editing. I guess I would write 5/4, 6/4, etc, and hopefully my audience would be sympathetic to my failing.

Anyway, I don’t think my eccentric decision to number my twts in the style of other social media platforms is the only context where someone might write ¼ not meaning a quarter. E.g. January 4, to Americans.

I’m happy to keep overthinking this for as long as you are :-P

@bender@twtxt.net @prologic@twtxt.net I’m not exactly asking yarnd to change. If you are okay with the way it displayed my twts, then by all means, leave it as is. I hope you won’t mind if I continue to write things like 1/4 to mean “first out of four”.

What has text/markdown got to do with this? I don’t think Markdown says anything about replacing 1/4 with ¼, or other similar transformations. It’s not needed, because ¼ is already a unicode character that can simply be directly inserted into the text file.

What’s wrong with my original suggestion of doing the transformation before the text hits the twtxt.txt file? @prologic@twtxt.net, I think it would achieve what you are trying to achieve with this content-type thing: if someone writes 1/4 on a yarnd instance or any other client that wants to do this, it would get transformed, and other clients simply wouldn’t do the transformation. Every client that supports displaying unicode characters, including Jenny, would then display ¼ as ¼.

Alternatively, if you prefer yarnd to pretty-print all twts nicely, even ones from simpler clients, that’s fine too and you don’t need to change anything. My 1/4 -> ¼ thing is nothing more than a minor irritation which probably isn’t worth overthinking.

@prologic@twtxt.net I’m not a yarnd user, so it doesn’t matter a whole lot to me, but FWIW I’m not especially keen on changing how I format my twts to work around yarnd’s quirks.

I wonder if this kind of postprocessing would fit better between composing (via yarnd’s UI) and publishing. So, if a yarnd user types ¼, it could get changed to ¼ in the twtxt.txt file for everyone to see, not just people reading through yarnd. But when I type ¼, meaning first out of four, as a non-yarnd user, the meaning wouldn’t get corrupted. I can always type ¼ directly if that’s what I really intend.

(This twt might be easier to understand if you read it without any transformations :-P)

Anyway, again, I’m not a yarnd user, so do what you will, just know you might not be seeing exactly what I meant.

@prologic@twtxt.net I wrote ¼ (one slash four) by which I meant “the first out of four”. twtxt.net is showing it as ¼, a single character that IMO doesn’t have that same meaning (it means 0.25). Similarly, ¾ got replaced with ¾ in another twt. It’s not a big deal. It just looks a little wrong, especially beside the 2/4 and 4/4 in my other two twts.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de, having an issue fetching a twtxt context. I am getting:

Trying to fetch "#mowsvgq" from Yarn pod https://txt.sour.is ...
Trying to fetch "#mowsvgq" from Yarn pod https://twtxt.net ...
Twt could not be found

Yet, the twtxt is there: https://twtxt.net/twt/mowsvgq. Bug, or something else?

@Codebuzz@www.codebuzz.nl Welcome to the twt’verse 👋

@prologic@twtxt.net Sure!! gg=G auto-indents your documents, as for the rest it’s:

• v for selection mode, c for change and d for delete actions as usual.
  
• followed by either ‘afor around ori` for inside/in-between whatever special character comes after it
  _ the [, (, “ … special characters define the perimeter/extent of the action.
  

i.e: ci" would be change the text under the cursor between quotes and da[ _delete text and brackets included_

I’ve linked a reference in the first twt, hope you find it useful.

@2024-10-09T08:11:00Z@twtxt.net It an easy way of twt-adressing by using the timestamp instead of a nick, which is arbitrary anyhow. Just my suggestion for a new reply-model ;)

I share I did write up an algorithm for it at some point I think it is lost in a git comment someplace. I’ll put together a pseudo/go code this week.

Super simple:

Making a reply:

1. If yarn has one use that. (Maybe do collision check?)
   
2. Make hash of twt raw no truncation.
   
3. Check local cache for shortest without collision
   
   • in SQL: select len(subject) where head_full_hash like subject || '%'
     

Threading:

1. Get full hash of head twt
   
2. Search for twts
   
   • in SQL: head_full_hash like subject || '%' and created_on > head_timestamp
     

The assumption being replies will be for the most recent head. If replying to an older one it will use a longer hash.