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In-reply-to » Hi! For anyone following the Request for Comments on an improved syntax for replies and threads, I've made a comparative spreadsheet with the 4 proposals so far. It shows a syntax example, and top pros and cons I've found: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KOUqJ2rNl_jZ4KBVTsR-4QmG1zAdKNo7QXJS1uogQVo/edit?gid=0#gid=0

I have applied your comments, and I tried to add you as an editor but couldn’t find your email address. Please request editing access if you wish.

Also, could you elaborate on how you envision migrating with a script? You mean that the client of the file owner could massively update URLs in old twts ?

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@andros@twtxt.andros.dev Can you reproduce any of this outside of your client? I can’t spot a mistake here:

$ curl -sI 'http://movq.de/v/8684c7d264/.html%2Dindex%2Dthumb%2Dgimp11%2D1.png.jpg'
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Connection: keep-alive
Content-Length: 2615
Content-Type: image/jpeg
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2025 19:53:17 GMT
Last-Modified: Wed, 19 Mar 2025 17:34:08 GMT
Server: OpenBSD httpd

$ curl -sI 'https://movq.de/v/8684c7d264/gimp11%2D1.png'
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Connection: keep-alive
Content-Length: 131798
Content-Type: image/png
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2025 19:53:19 GMT
Last-Modified: Wed, 19 Mar 2025 17:18:07 GMT
Server: OpenBSD httpd

$ telnet movq.de 80
Trying 185.162.249.140...
Connected to movq.de.
Escape character is '^]'.
HEAD /v/8684c7d264/.html%2Dindex%2Dthumb%2Dgimp11%2D1.png.jpg HTTP/1.1
Host: movq.de
Connection: close

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Connection: close
Content-Length: 2615
Content-Type: image/jpeg
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2025 19:53:31 GMT
Last-Modified: Wed, 19 Mar 2025 17:34:08 GMT
Server: OpenBSD httpd

Connection closed by foreign host.
$ 

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@andros@twtxt.andros.dev Hm, looks correct to me. The image to be displayed is a thumbnail and this links to the full-sized image. The thumbnail (JPG) is auto-generated from the full image (PNG), hence the two extensions.

What does look strange, though, is that your client came up with the hash pqsmcka, while it should have been te5quba. đŸ€”

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In-reply-to » Hi! For anyone following the Request for Comments on an improved syntax for replies and threads, I've made a comparative spreadsheet with the 4 proposals so far. It shows a syntax example, and top pros and cons I've found: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KOUqJ2rNl_jZ4KBVTsR-4QmG1zAdKNo7QXJS1uogQVo/edit?gid=0#gid=0

@eapl.me@eapl.me Good job! I have added these comments:

  1. It is only long for humans. Clients can only leave a hyperlink.
  2. The nickname is just a decoration, only the date that acts as the id and the URL matter. The nick is used for humans reading the feed.
  3. It can be migrated with a script, if the feed exists.

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In-reply-to » What is twtxt for me? It is a community of users sharing plain text following a specification that can be readable by both humans and machines.

well
 it has been an opportunity to build an artisanal microblogging client on top of a minimalist protocol. I agree on the hacker toy part.

And of course it’s about being part of a niche community which is (mostly) amazing, and nurturing. As there is almost no one writing in my native spanish, it has been an interesting challenge to share my thoughts in english, as well.

I couldn’t say it’s a ‘social network’ per se, I think it lack many engagement things usually associated with social networks, although it has a social part of igniting discussions, learnings and behavioral changes, which is the meaning of social for me.

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In-reply-to » I got a small desk calendar as advertising gift. It shows three months at once. I'm using this thing since the beginning of this year and I have to say that it turned out to be super useful. I'm happily surprised.

ah! those german calendars. Somehow I was thinking of something like mine, with spaces to write inside each day.

I worked for a german company and they gave away these calendars to our clients and team every year, but the model you can hang on the wall. Memory unlocked!

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In-reply-to » What does the #twtxt community think about having a p2p database to store all history? This will be managed by Registries.

@prologic@twtxt.net If it develops, and I’m not saying it will happen soon, perhaps Yarn could be connected as an additional node. Implementation would not be difficult for any client or software. It will not only be a backup of twtxt, but it will be the source for search, discovery and network health.

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In-reply-to » What does the #twtxt community think about having a p2p database to store all history? This will be managed by Registries.

pls elaborate on a ‘p2p database’, ‘all story’ and ‘Registries’.

My first thought takes me to something like secure-scuttlebutt which it’s painful to sync data using clients, and too slow compared to downloading a text file.

Also I’d like for twtxt to avoid becoming an ActivityPub. Works well but it’s uses too many resources IMO.
https://kingant.net/2025/02/mastodon-the-cost-of-running-my-own-server/

I’m defending being able to self-host your Web client (like you’d do with a Wordpress, twtxt is a micrologging, at the end), instead of federated instances, so in a first thought I’d say Registries have many disadvantages being the first one that someone has to maintain them active.

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Hacer software código opensource es desafiante y paulatinamente desgasta a su autor. Todo comienza con pasión y entusiasmo, por supuesto. Si logras repercusión, te enfrentas a una carrera de fondo que muchos terminan abandonando por las demandas constantes de usuarios que, a menudo, no valoran el trabajo ni contribuyen de manera significativa. Por mencionar un caso reciente: Hector Martin. Líder del proyecto Asahi Linux, quien dedicó años a adaptar Linux para los procesadores Apple Silicon, un logro técnico impresionante. Sin embargo, terminó renunciando debido a la presión de usuarios que exigían soporte y mejoras como si fueran clientes pagos.

La mayorĂ­a de los mantenedores no reciben ningĂșn soporte econĂłmico. Solo unos pocos proyectos logran sostenibilidad financiera a travĂ©s de patrocinios, mientras que la mayorĂ­a de los desarrolladores terminan con un segundo empleo no remunerado.

Sin un cambio en la forma en que se valora y apoya los proyectos Opensource, y no solo hablo de las grandes empresas multimillonarias. SerĂ­a una perdida para todos si acabaremos con un ecosistema de software archivado y abandonado.

Ahora te paso la pelota a ti, Âżcuando fue la Ășltima vez que apoyaste a un mantenedor de software opensource?

#opensource #software #sostenibilidad

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I have released new updates to the twtxt.el client.

  • New feature: View and interact with threads.
  • Optimisation of ordering for long feeds.
  • Minor fixes.

In the next version you will be able to see all your mentions.

Enjoy!

#emacs #twtxt #twtxtel

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In-reply-to » @eapl.me There are several points that I like, but I want to highlight number 7. https://text.eapl.mx/a-few-ideas-for-a-next-twtxt-version #twtxt

looks good to me!

About alice’s hash, using SHA256, I get 96473b4f or 96473B4F for the last 8 characters. I’ll add it as an implementation example.
The idea of including it besides the follow URL is to avoid calculating it every time we load the file (assuming the client did that correctly), and helps to track replies across the file with a simple search.

Also, watching your example I’m thinking now that instead of {url=96473B4F,id=1} which is ambiguous of which URL we are referring to, it could be something like:
{reply_to=[URL_HASH]_[TWT_ID]} / {reply_to=96473B4F_1}
That way, the ‘full twt ID’ could be 96473B4F_1.

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Hey everyone!

About the idea of improving the “thread” extension, what if we set aside March 2025 to gather proposals and thoughts from everyone? We could then vote on them at the end of the month to see if the change and migration are worth it.

The voting could include client maintainers (and maybe even users too). That way, we get a good mix of perspectives before taking a decision in a decent timelapse.

What do you think? If this sounds good, we can start agreeing on this. Let me know your thoughts!

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In-reply-to » @bmallred I forgot one more effect of edits. If clients remember the read status of massages by hash, an edit will mark the updated message as unread again. To some degree that is even the right behavior, because the message was updated, so the user might want to have a look at the updated version. On the other hand, if it's just a small typo fix, it's maybe not worth to tell the user about. But the client doesn't know, at least not with additional logic.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Clients could detest edits đŸ€ž

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In-reply-to » (#tbyqv7a) @andros Do edits cause problems? I sometimes make them and didn't realize it may be an issue

@bmallred@staystrong.run I forgot one more effect of edits. If clients remember the read status of massages by hash, an edit will mark the updated message as unread again. To some degree that is even the right behavior, because the message was updated, so the user might want to have a look at the updated version. On the other hand, if it’s just a small typo fix, it’s maybe not worth to tell the user about. But the client doesn’t know, at least not with additional logic.

Having said that, it appears that this only affects me personally, noone else. I don’t know of any other client that saves read statuses. But don’t worry about me, all good. Just keep doing what you’ve done so far. I wanted to mention that only for the sake of completeness. :-)

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In-reply-to » Question to the twtxt veterans, are we experiencing an explosion of clients or is this a regular occurrence?

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev I don’t see a burst of new twtxt clients popping up. Yeah, the most recent ones are TwtxtReader and twtxt-el. Did I miss one? I agree with @david@collantes.us, looks normal to me. :-)

I’m also working on my rewrite at the moment, but that started
 *looking at the git history*
 oh wow! O_o Over two years ago! I just implemented jumping to the next/previous unread message.

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In-reply-to » Question to the twtxt veterans, are we experiencing an explosion of clients or is this a regular occurrence?

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev I wouldn’t call it regular, but cyclical. Since, with the exception of Yarn (maybe?), clients are everything when it comes to twtxt, every now and then we see an increase of interest on new development. I have seeing them come and go, only few “beside remains”. :-)

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I have released new updates to the twtxt.el client.

  • Markdown to Org mode (you need to install Pandoc).
  • Centred column.
  • Added new logo.
  • Added text helper.

The new version I will try to finish the visual thread. You still can’t see the thread yet.

#emacs #twtxt #twtxtel

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In-reply-to » @andros is it me or twtxt-el generates a wrong twt hash when I use the [ ↳ Reply to twt ] button?

I don’t think so, at least the tests I did passed. If you’re pretty sure it’s a bug, please create an issue in the repository with the specific case and I’ll investigate it.
There are 2 buttons to make replicas, one makes a replica in the thread where the twt is located (this is the one that should be used the most, as it serves a thread), the other creates a replica to a specific twt.
I’ll let you know a bit about the status: I’m just now implementing the thread screen. There you can be sure where you are. It’s a bit confusing right now, sorry. I think the client is still in alpha. When I’ve finished what I’m doing, and the direct message system, I’ll freeze development and focus on creating more tests, looking for bugs and making small visual adjustments.

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In-reply-to » Today is an important day. We have a new extension: Direct message đŸȘ‡đŸ—šïžđŸš€đŸ„łâ€ïž https://twtxt.dev/exts/direct-message.html #twtxt

@arne@uplegger.eu Hi! I love that you’re implementing it! Maybe, when we’re both done, we could test the clients by communicating both.
I don’t think I’m going to be able to help you much, my knowledge of OpenSSL and PHP is not as high as I’d like it to be.
Maybe the OpenSSL version uses SHA-1 by default in PHP. Or that the IV is derived together with the key (not generated separately). But I’m not able to answer your questions, sorry.
I’m invoking the commands directly, without any libraries in between. Maybe that would help you?

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In-reply-to » (I keep thinking that going back go Gopher or Gemini might be a good idea at this point. They don’t care about that, probably. đŸ«Ł)

well, Gemini clients like Lagrange allow to show inline images when you click on an image link. Text based clients, like Amfora, usually allow to watch the image in another ‘window’.

For example here: gemini://text.eapl.mx/en-making-a-tic-tac-toe-variant and there https://text.eapl.mx/en-making-a-tic-tac-toe-variant

I agree that some topics require images to make it easier to explain.

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Bloody hell đŸ€Šâ€â™‚ïžđŸ€Šâ€â™‚ïž

$ jq -r --arg host "gopher.mills.io" '. | select(.request.host==$host) | "\(.request.client_ip) \(.request.uri) \(.request.headers["User-Agent"])"' mills.io.log-au | while IFS=$' ' read -r ip uri ua; do asn="$(geoip -a "$ip")"; echo "$asn $ip $uri $ua"; done | grep -E '^45102.*' | sort | head
45102 47.251.70.245 /gopher.floodgap.com/0/feeds/democracynow/2015/Oct/14/0 ["Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_15_7) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/119.0.0.0 Safari/537.36"]
45102 47.251.84.25 /gopher.floodgap.com/0/feeds/voaheadlines/2014/Mar/09/voanews.com-content-article-1867433.html ["Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_15_7) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/120.0.0.0 Safari/537.36"]
45102 47.82.10.106 /gopher.viste.fr/1/OnlineTools/hangman.cgi%3F0692937396569A52972EB2 ["Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/114.0.0.0 Safari/537.36 Edg/114.0.1823.43"]
45102 47.82.10.106 /gopher.viste.fr/1/OnlineTools/hangman.cgi%3F9657307A96569A52974634 ["Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/114.0.0.0 Safari/537.36 Edg/114.0.1823.43"]
45102 47.82.10.106 /gopher.viste.fr/1/OnlineTools/hangman.cgi%3FB7571C7896569A529E6603 ["Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/114.0.0.0 Safari/537.36 Edg/114.0.1823.43"]
45102 47.82.10.106 /gopher.viste.fr/1/OnlineTools/hangman.cgi%3FB75EF81296569A529E6617 ["Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/114.0.0.0 Safari/537.36 Edg/114.0.1823.43"]
45102 47.82.10.106 /gopher.viste.fr/1/OnlineTools/hangman.cgi%3FC6564ADB96569A5A9E660C ["Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/114.0.0.0 Safari/537.36 Edg/114.0.1823.43"]

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In-reply-to » I'm continuing my tt rewrite in Go and quickly implemented a stack widget for tview. The builtin Pages is similar but way too complicated for my use case. I would have to specify a mandatory name and some additional options for each page. Also, it allows me to randomly jump around between pages using names, but only gives me direct access the first, however, not the last page. Weird. I don't wanna remember names. All I really need is a classic stack. You open a new fullscreen dialog and maybe another one on top of that. Closing the upper most brings you back to the previous one and so on.

Thinking about trying tt. If it really usable i will abandon twtxtdon (service to read twtxt feeds from mastodon client), which currently has only authorization implemented

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In-reply-to » @lyse Where? 🧐

@prologic@twtxt.net Of course you don’t notice it when yarnd only shows at most the last n messages of a feed. As an example, check out mckinley’s message from 2023-01-09T22:42:37Z. It has “[Scheduled][Scheduled][Scheduled]“
 in it. This text in square brackets is repeated numerous times. If you search his feed for closing square bracket followed by an opening square bracket (][) you will find a bunch more of these. It goes without question he never typed that in his feed. My client saves each twt hash I’ve explicitly marked read. A few days ago, I got plenty of apparently years old, yet suddenly unread messages. Each and every single one of them containing this repeated bracketed text thing. The only conclusion is that something messed up the feed again.

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In-reply-to » @eapl.me Read flags are so simple, yet powerful in my opinion. I really don't understand why this is not a thing in most twtxt clients. It's completely natural in e-mail programs and feed readers, but it hasn't made the jump over to this domain.

@eapl.me@eapl.me Yeah, you need some kind of storage for that. But chances are that there’s already a cache in place. Ideally, the client remembers etags or last modified timestamps in order to reduce unnecessary network traffic when fetching feeds over HTTP(S).

A newsreader without read flags would be totally useless to me. But I also do not subscribe to fire hose feeds, so maybe that’s a different story with these. I don’t know.

To me, filtering read messages out and only showing new messages is the obvious solution. No need for notifications in my opinion.

There are different approaches with read flags. Personally, I like to explicitly mark messages read or unread. This way, I can think about something and easily come back later to reply. Of course, marking messages read could also happen automatically. All decent mail clients I’ve used in my life offered even more advanced features, like delayed automatic marking.

All I can say is that I’m super happy with that for years. It works absolutely great for me. The only downside is that I see heaps of new, despite years old messages when a bug causes a feed to be incorrectly updated (https://twtxt.net/twt/tnsuifa). ;-)

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In-reply-to » @eapl.me Read flags are so simple, yet powerful in my opinion. I really don't understand why this is not a thing in most twtxt clients. It's completely natural in e-mail programs and feed readers, but it hasn't made the jump over to this domain.

that’s a fair point.

Perhaps, since Twitter in 2006 never implemented read flags, every derivative microblogging system never saw that as an expected feature. This is curious because Twitter started with SMS, where on our phones we can mark messages as read or unread.
I think it all comes from the difference between reading an email (directed to you) vs. reading public posts (like a blog or a ‘wall,’ where you don’t mark posts as read). It’s not necessary to mark it as ‘read’, you just jump over it.

Reading microblogging posts in an email program is not common, I think, and I haven’t really used it, so I cannot say how it works, and whether it would be better for me or not.
However, I’ve used Thunderbird as a feed reader, and I understand the advantages when reading blog posts.

About read flags being simple, well
 we just had a discussion this morning about how tracking read messages would require a lot of rethinking for clients such as timeline where no state is stored. Even considering some kind of ‘notification of unread messages or mentions’ is not expected for those minimalist client, so it’s an interesting compromise to think about.

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In-reply-to » Linear feeds are a dark pattern - A proposal for Mastodon https://tilde.town/~dzwdz/blog/feeds.html

@eapl.me@eapl.me Read flags are so simple, yet powerful in my opinion. I really don’t understand why this is not a thing in most twtxt clients. It’s completely natural in e-mail programs and feed readers, but it hasn’t made the jump over to this domain.

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In-reply-to » I'm realizing that my performance bottleneck is @prologic ! It is actually calculating the hash to make the replicas, and specifically users with very long feeds 😂 . I'm seriously thinking about enabling replies via configuration.

You write too much for my client 😂

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In-reply-to » I want to share a little idea for a new extension with the goal of adding direct messages in #twtxt https://github.com/tanrax/twtxt-direct-message-extension

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev How about putting the whole encrypted conversation into a sperate twtxt-file. Just like the archive feature (?). That way, the general clients don’t have to cope with the decrytption stuff and it won’t break the general public conversations.

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In-reply-to » Die Bastelei am TxtwtReader geht gut voran. Neben diversen Filtern und Ansichten werden Unterhaltungen nun schön strukturiert angezeigt. Jetzt mĂŒsste ich mich auch mal um das Verfassen von EintrĂ€gen kĂŒmmern. Wenn ich mit dem Projekt zufrieden bin, lasse ich es vielleicht auch auf die Welt los. #OpenSource

@arne@uplegger.eu Klingt gut, Du darfst uns gern mal ein paar Bildschirmfotos vom aktuellen Stand zeigen. :-) Die erste Aufnahme sah bereits recht aufgerÀumt aus.

Ich mĂŒsste auch endlich mal an meinem Client weitermachen. Aber heut nimmer.

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In-reply-to » I want to share a little idea for a new extension with the goal of adding direct messages in #twtxt https://github.com/tanrax/twtxt-direct-message-extension

@prologic@twtxt.net @lyse@lyse.isobeef.org First, please leave me your comments on the repository! Even if it’s just to give your opinion on what shouldn’t be included. The more variety, the better.

Second, I’m going to try to do tests with Elliptic keys and base64. Thanks for the advice @eapl@eapl.me

Finally, I’d like to give my opinion. Secure direct messages are a feature that ActivityPub and Mastodon don’t have, to give an example. By including it as an extension, we’re already taking a significant leap forward from the competition. Does it make sense to include it in a public feed? In fact, we’re already doing that. When we reply to a user, mentioning them at the beginning of the message, it’s already a direct message. The message is within a thread, perhaps breaking the conversation. Direct messages would help isolate conversations between 2 users, as well as keeping a thread cleaner and maintaining privacy. I insist, it’s optional, it doesn’t break compatibility with any client and implementing it isn’t complex. If you don’t like it, you’re free to not use it. If you don’t have a public key, no one can send you direct messages.

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In-reply-to » I want to share a little idea for a new extension with the goal of adding direct messages in #twtxt https://github.com/tanrax/twtxt-direct-message-extension

another one would be to allow changing public keys over time (as it may be a good practice [0]). A syntax like the following could help to know what public key you used to encrypt the message, and which private key the client should use to decrypt it:

!<nick url> <encrypted_message> <public_key_hash_7_chars>

Also I’d remove support for storing the message as hex, only allowing base64 (more compact, aiming for a minimalistic spec, etc.)

[0] https://www.brandonchecketts.com/archives/its-2023-you-should-be-using-an-ed25519-ssh-key-and-other-current-best-practices

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In-reply-to » đŸ€” Prosoal: Disallowed the @<url> form of mentions. Strictly require that all mentions include a nickname/name; i.e: @<name url>.

@prologic@twtxt.net I say we should find a way to support mentions with only url, no nick, as per the original spec.

  • For @<nick url> we already got support
  • For @<nick> the posting client should expand it to @<nick url>, if not then the reading client should just render it as @nick with no link.
  • For @<url> the sending client should try to expand it to @<nick url>, if not then the reading client should try to find or construct a nick base on:
    1. Look in twtxt.txt for a nick =
    2. Use (sub)domain from URL
    3. Use folder or file name from URL

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