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Speaking of UIs, this is how Thunderbird looks now:

https://movq.de/v/a41105eebb/

So we continue to let every program make up its own UI style (and then we complain that “the Linux desktop” looks “messy” and “inconsistent”). I guess this uses GTK, but it doesn’t look like any other GTK program. Buttons, tabs, drop-downs, whatever, it’s all different. It even has its own subwindow system (i.e., popups that you can’t move).

I didn’t say this in the blog post, but I’m convinced that programmers these days absolutely positively hate everything that looks even remotely like Windows 95 or Motif – with a passion. I see that in my coworkers as well, they really can’t stand it. It’s an emotional thing.

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In-reply-to » @movq Regarding https://movq.de/blog/postings/2026-06-16/0/POSTING-en.html:

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org In what way was KDE 3’s menu organized? KDE 1 is the only KDE version I ever used. 😅 We’re talking about this one, right?

Isn’t Notepad++ and Python cheating!? :-D

Well, Python was certainly already a thing back then, but Notepad++ is from 2003, right. I think I used https://www.wintotal.de/download/proton/ at the time? Maybe? I don’t know. 😅

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@movq@www.uninformativ.de Regarding https://movq.de/blog/postings/2026-06-16/0/POSTING-en.html:

In my opinion, the KDE 3.5 menu was organized way better than the Windows Start menu. Granted, a typical KDE installation had much more applications to offer, too. So, there was more need to get it right. And it probably was also later in time.

Isn’t Notepad++ and Python cheating!? :-D

Crazy story on the clock’s seconds. I never heard of that before. Neat.

Yeah, UI these days is horrible. (That’s why my own TUIs suck, too!)

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The dairy farm has a new milk vending machine. The prices increased by 20%. One liter is now 1.20€ instead of 1.00€. But I don’t complain.

In a few meters of shrubs there were easily 50 butterflies. That was crazy, I’ve never seen this many in one spot. I should have taken a video.

The grain field in the beginning was looking so great. Crazy colorful and very yummy looking. I would have loved to take a bite. Or at least lie down right in the middle.

That was another great time in the outdoors. The 21°C were killing us, though. We were always glad when we reached a shady spot with a little breeze. I’m not gonna survive the 35°C later this week. :-(

https://lyse.isobeef.org/waldspaziergang-2026-06-15/

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In-reply-to » @lyse Is it this one? https://github.com/rivo/tview It’s almost 10 years old but hasn’t seen a 1.0.0 release yet? 🤔

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Interesting approach. 🤔

The master branch should never be in a broken state (apart from bugs I don’t know about). Any intermediate state during the development of a larger feature will happen in a different branch.

I mean, yeah, but … I don’t know, I like having “traditional releases” as a second safety net when I write programs. I like to let things mature for a while and then I cut a new release. So it’s, like, “we have a bunch of new features and fixes here, and to the best of my knowledge this works fine now”. But maybe I’m just paranoid. 🤔

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In-reply-to » @movq Yes. The author tries hard not to break existing code, but apparently he did this time. In his defense, it's not an official release, I just updated to master. Which is exactly what I always did in the past as there are no real versions (I even think that in one ticket he wrote years ago that master is always stable). That has finally changed a year ago, though: https://github.com/rivo/tview/releases/tag/v0.42.0

There: https://github.com/rivo/tview/issues/442#issuecomment-641898039

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In-reply-to » @lyse Is it this one? https://github.com/rivo/tview It’s almost 10 years old but hasn’t seen a 1.0.0 release yet? 🤔

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Yes. The author tries hard not to break existing code, but apparently he did this time. In his defense, it’s not an official release, I just updated to master. Which is exactly what I always did in the past as there are no real versions (I even think that in one ticket he wrote years ago that master is always stable). That has finally changed a year ago, though: https://github.com/rivo/tview/releases/tag/v0.42.0

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In-reply-to » Updated draft: http://movq.de/blog/drafts/changelog/POSTING-en.html

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Brilliant! Oh, I’m super happy to get it all wrong together with you. :-)

[Release notes] are meant for human beings, it’s a human-to-human interaction.

This is one of the most important messages. Absolute key, but misunderstood so often.

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In-reply-to » Every now and then, I think that I have carefully proof-read my message enough times and hit the "Add message" button in tt. But then, in the message tree, I spot another missed typo. My process is then to go to my twtxt.txt and fix it by hand. However, I still have to clean up tt's cache. This is rather tidious:

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Is it this one? https://github.com/rivo/tview It’s almost 10 years old but hasn’t seen a 1.0.0 release yet? 🤔

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In-reply-to » Oh boy, I absolutely hate this stupid trend of not writing changelogs anymore! Why the fuck would one seriously consider it to be a viable option to just let some shitty bot spew all merge requests on a goddamn GitHub release?! First of all, these merge request titles suck balls. The order of the changes in this "changelog" is completely random (well, probably merge time, which is as useless as the dick on the Pope). They are not grouped by anything at all. Additions, changes, removals, deprecations, etc. randomly mixed up in one giant list. And then "Add feature X", seventeen kilometers further down "Revert 'Add feature X'". Fuck you! Don't include this shit in the first place!

Updated draft: http://movq.de/blog/drafts/changelog/POSTING-en.html

I’ll probably publish this later today. Or maybe not at all. It’s one of those topics that might cause outrage because I’m getting it all wrong. 🤪

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In-reply-to » Oh boy, I absolutely hate this stupid trend of not writing changelogs anymore! Why the fuck would one seriously consider it to be a viable option to just let some shitty bot spew all merge requests on a goddamn GitHub release?! First of all, these merge request titles suck balls. The order of the changes in this "changelog" is completely random (well, probably merge time, which is as useless as the dick on the Pope). They are not grouped by anything at all. Additions, changes, removals, deprecations, etc. randomly mixed up in one giant list. And then "Add feature X", seventeen kilometers further down "Revert 'Add feature X'". Fuck you! Don't include this shit in the first place!

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Oh god, yeah. In other words: Devs need to think about who their target audience is. 😐

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In-reply-to » Oh boy, I absolutely hate this stupid trend of not writing changelogs anymore! Why the fuck would one seriously consider it to be a viable option to just let some shitty bot spew all merge requests on a goddamn GitHub release?! First of all, these merge request titles suck balls. The order of the changes in this "changelog" is completely random (well, probably merge time, which is as useless as the dick on the Pope). They are not grouped by anything at all. Additions, changes, removals, deprecations, etc. randomly mixed up in one giant list. And then "Add feature X", seventeen kilometers further down "Revert 'Add feature X'". Fuck you! Don't include this shit in the first place!

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I just ran across another thing. At least I personally couldn’t care less about CI infrastructure changes. Whether they’re using github action a or b or c or version v or w, it is not of my interest. At all. (It might be useful to estimate the supply chain attack risk, though.) If the maintainers want to include them in the changelog – and there are probably people to whom this information is crucial – it’s probably best to document CI infrastructure changes in their own section.

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In-reply-to » Oh boy, I absolutely hate this stupid trend of not writing changelogs anymore! Why the fuck would one seriously consider it to be a viable option to just let some shitty bot spew all merge requests on a goddamn GitHub release?! First of all, these merge request titles suck balls. The order of the changes in this "changelog" is completely random (well, probably merge time, which is as useless as the dick on the Pope). They are not grouped by anything at all. Additions, changes, removals, deprecations, etc. randomly mixed up in one giant list. And then "Add feature X", seventeen kilometers further down "Revert 'Add feature X'". Fuck you! Don't include this shit in the first place!

@movq@www.uninformativ.de You may want to include another antipattern to avoid in your article:

  • bump $same_dependency from 1.0.0 to 1.0.1
  • bump $same_dependency from 1.0.1 to 1.0.2
  • bump $same_dependency from 1.0.2 to 1.1.0
  • bump $same_dependency from 1.1.0 to 1.2.0

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In-reply-to » Every now and then, I think that I have carefully proof-read my message enough times and hit the "Add message" button in tt. But then, in the message tree, I spot another missed typo. My process is then to go to my twtxt.txt and fix it by hand. However, I still have to clean up tt's cache. This is rather tidious:

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Thank you very much! So, the concept is very similar. The root widget gets the input and can pass it to whatever child has the focus and so on.

My two main issues are the API design, that the input handler sometimes get an additional callback to notify the application about which element is focused, but sometimes not. And that focus switching sometimes just does not work as expected. Anyway.

As for rendering the selected button, I was also thinking about indicating it with some kind of border around it, square brackets seem to be a wonderful choice. :-)

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In-reply-to » Every now and then, I think that I have carefully proof-read my message enough times and hit the "Add message" button in tt. But then, in the message tree, I spot another missed typo. My process is then to go to my twtxt.txt and fix it by hand. However, I still have to clean up tt's cache. This is rather tidious:

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org

With multicolored TUIs, I find it usually hard to immediately tell which button is selected if there are just two.

Indeed, I wouldn’t be able to tell in that example, either. movwin works around that by (mostly) assuming that there is no support for colors at all, so there should always be a way to tell which widget has focus, even without colors. That’s why it puts brackets around a button’s label when focused:

The fewer colors you use, the better, I guess. 🤔

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In-reply-to » Every now and then, I think that I have carefully proof-read my message enough times and hit the "Add message" button in tt. But then, in the message tree, I spot another missed typo. My process is then to go to my twtxt.txt and fix it by hand. However, I still have to clean up tt's cache. This is rather tidious:

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org

Now I’m curious how movwin deals with that. ;-)

Focus handling? I hardly remember, lol. 😅 Did that 6 months ago and haven’t touched it since. Let’s see.

The core main loop gets keyboard/mouse events from curses. At this level, the main loop only knows about exactly one widget, so it passes the event to that widget (whatever that is, doesn’t matter – they all inherit from the Widget base class, it could be a Window, a WindowManager, or an Edit box directly).

The outermost widget is usually a WindowManager. It implements a few hotkeys of its own, like switching to another window. If none of those hotkeys match, it passes the event to the currently focused window.

Same story here: Window implements some hotkeys (like opening the menu bar). If none of those match, then … the magic happens.

Each Window acts as a focus manager. It can descend into its child widget hierarchy and collect all child widgets in a depth-first search. They are collected into a flat list. Each Window then has an attribute _focus_position, which is an index into that list. Pressing Tab or Shift+Tab increases or decreases that index and that allows you to select the next/previous focusable widget in the current window.

Eventually, Window passes the input event to the currently focused widget.

Usually on initialization, the application can ask a Window object to focus a certain widget. The file selection dialog does that, for example, because the “natural” focus order would be to focus the Edit box at the top of the window first – but that’s not what the user wants, the Table showing the list of files should be focused.

If no widget ever feels responsible for handling a certain input event, then there’s a global unhandled_input callback that the application can provide (same as in urwid).

I think that’s it.

Hm, that’s more complicated than I remembered, but apparently it works fine, because I completely forgot about this. 😅 All I did in the last few months was make new classes that inherit from Widget, like the new Table class or Edit or HexEdit or whatever, and if they want to get input events, then they must implement the methods input_key() or input_mouse().

Does this answer your question? 😅 (I admit that I didn’t exactly understand your scenario, so I just went ahead and rambled about my implementation. 😅)

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Every now and then, I think that I have carefully proof-read my message enough times and hit the “Add message” button in tt. But then, in the message tree, I spot another missed typo. My process is then to go to my twtxt.txt and fix it by hand. However, I still have to clean up tt’s cache. This is rather tidious:

  1. Recall the sqlitebrowser ~/.local/share/twtxt/tt2.sqlite from my shell history.
  2. Switch to the “Browse data” tab.
  3. Go to the messages table and wait a second or two until it’s loaded.
  4. Sort by the created_at column twice, so that I get descending order.
  5. Select the first message, which is typically the one in question.
  6. Find the “Remove currently selected row” button in the tool bar.
  7. Commit the changes.
  8. Close sqlitebrowser.

So, I finally implemented the removal of messages from the cache in tt. I can now hit d and confirm the removal. Bam! Should have done that ages ago!

https://lyse.isobeef.org/tmp/tt-confirm-message-removal.png

Next up is the search, I think.

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