@prologic@twtxt.net @bender@twtxt.net @eapl.me@eapl.me I think opening another file is a bad idea because it adds complexity to the clients, breaks the single feed and I think keeping legacy clients will be more complex to add new features in the future. A modern approach is important.
I’ll be honest, I’m a bit tired of the fight around the direct message. Perhaps, we can remove it as an extension and use the alternative @prologic@twtxt.net . My suggestion apparently doesn’t like to the community. I have no problem with remove it.

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev maybe create a separate, completely distinct feed for DM? That way, clients do not need to do anything, only those wanted to “talk in private” follow themselves, using their very special dm-only.txt feeds. 😂

@eapl.me@eapl.me When it is up and running, I promise to add it to the specification. I will also include some corrections.
The nature of twtxt does not allow us to selectively hide clients. It’s a problem not with DM, but with any extension.
@prologic@twtxt.net Yes, it is a security hole. All dm-echo messages are readable. I intend it to be a debugging tool. Maybe I can include a warning message. If many of you see that it is a serious problem, I can remove the links.
@xuu@txt.sour.is It’s already much better than Mastodon :P . Maybe we can remove the sender and receiver references with an intermediary register.

not a big deal as I can skip those messages, but again, it’s an extension, so older clients shouldn’t be affected by a new feature.

I’m also thinking that some kind of tag might be needed to automatically hide twts from unknown extensions. For example our client doesn’t support DMs and always shows the !<nick url><encrypted_message> syntax which is meaningless.

@bender@twtxt.net Yes! I deleted those repeated twts because it was poor execution by my client. They are currently not present in my feed.
Maybe it would be interesting to check if any twt has disappeared?

Aside from fetching feeds every three minutes (which kind of adds mystery to this puzzle), I think there is something else going on with the client you are using, @andros@twtxt.andros.dev. Some of those twtxts are seconds apart, making me truly stumped. 😅

YEAH THATS ME LOLLLL I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT IT IS….. me haunting ur clients or whatever with my funky version string

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Yes! this is fun 😆
What client are you using? @eapl.me@eapl.me

yay! A new client 😀

thanks for sharing @xuu@txt.sour.is!

Checking for example https://watcher.sour.is/api/plain/twt or https://registry.twtxt.org/api/plain/tweets, I don’t know whether this syntax is being used by clients or by people. Is it integrated on Yarn in any way? Genuinely asking to know more about it.

If I might throw a quick thought to those working on the registries, it would be nice to have an endpoint with a valid twtxt output (perhaps cached or dumped to a static file) which a client could point to, helping to discover it’s content in a way which is compatible with the twtxt spec.

Taking the first twt I found in https://watcher.sour.is/api/plain/twt as an example:
reddit_world_news https://feeds.twtxt.net/Reddit_World_News/twtxt.txt 2025-03-28T00:29:25Z **China bans US logs. 3 billion dollar[...])
it would be something like
TIME <@NICK URL> TWT
2025-03-28T00:29:25Z <@reddit_world_news https://feeds.twtxt.net/Reddit_World_News/twtxt.txt> **China bans US logs. 3 billion dollar[...])

That way you could watch the latest twts with your client, something similar to what we find on Mastodon: https://mastodon.online/public/local

Some support from the clients to separate these ‘discovery’ content, from your following timeline might be required. 🤔

somehow I forgot that existed.

Perhaps it was its mention of being a demo implementation here:
https://twtxt.readthedocs.io/en/latest/user/registry.html#registry
So I though it wasn’t really active.

Anyway, I think that’s a good idea.

Is there something similar available on Yarn? Sorry for for asking if that was mentioned recently.

I think that the clients may help you to submit your URL to these directories, and also to get a view of the twts in them.

thanks @prologic!
@bender the idea of the RFC was to reach an agreement on a difficult problem, receiving proposals, and the voting is a simple count to gauge the sentiment of “is this a problem worth to be fixed?, are we committed to implement a change in our clients?”

But that’s a fair point. What do the community expect? What do y’all expect?

Twtxt was made for nerds, by nerds.
I’d like to change that. It’s by nerds/hackers, for nerds/hackers and friends of these. It doesn’t have to be hacky all the time, as you don’t need to be a nerd to have a blog.
But, for that to happen, someone has to build the tools to improve UX.

by design there really is no way to easily discovers others
Yeah, I agree, and although there are directories of email addresses, usually you don’t want that, unless you are a ‘public figure’.
I couldn’t say that a microblogging is a “social network” by default, as a blog is not either. At the same time, people would expect to find new people and conversations, as you’d do in a forum.

I think of two features on top of the current spec:

• Clients showing a few posts of what your following are watching but you don’t, so perhaps you find something interesting to follow next. Or that feature of “Your ‘followings’ are following these accounts/people”. (Hard to explain in english, but I hope you get the idea)
  
• Sharing your .txt into some directory, saying “Hey, I have this twtxt URL, I want to be discovered”. I’m thinking of something like the Federated tab on Mastodon.

Hmm so looking at the swagger of the registry spec client it seems to just take a “page”.. That seems worse than doing an offset. Lol.

https://github.com/DracoBlue/twtxt-registry/blob/master/src/swagger.json

thanks andros!

instead of adding the new twt at the end of the feed, do it at the beginning
The PHP client did that originally, although I didn’t see a real benefit if you use… a client.
It could help if you read the .txt file through a browser or something. Also, not many clients are prepared to cut the request, and you can’t rely on the file being organized that way, so finally we dropped that feature.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org I’m glad to hear that! Yay for more clients. 😊

I now subscribed to most feeds in my Go tt reimplementation that I already followed with the old Python tt. Previously, I just had a few feeds for testing purposes in my new config. While transfering, I “dropped” heaps of feeds that appeared to be inactive.

This might motivate me to actually “finish” the new client, so that it could become my daily driver. No need to use the old software stack any longer. Let’s see how bad this goes.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Yeah, most of the graphical applications are actually KDE programs:

• KMail – e-mail client
  
• Okular – PDF viewer
  
• Gwenview – image viewer
  
• Dolphin – file browser
  
• KWallet – password manager (I want to check out pass one day. The most annoying thing is that when I copy a password, it says that the password has been modified and asks me whether I want to save the changes. I never do, because the password is still the same. I don’t get it.)
  
• KPatience – card game
  
• Kdenlive – video editor
  
• Kleopatra – certificate manager
  

Qt:

• VLC – video player
  
• Psi – Jabber client (I happily used Kopete in the past, but that is not supported anymore or so. I don’t remember.)
  
• sqlitebrowser – SQLite browser
  

Gtk:

• Firefox – web browser
  
• Quod Libet – music player (I should look for a better alternative. Can’t remember why I had to move away from Amarok, was it dead? There was a fork Clementine or so, but I had to drop that for some unknown reason, too.)
  
• Audacity – audio editor
  
• GIMP – image editor
  

These are the things that are open right now or that I could think of. Most other stuff I actually do in the terminal.

In the past™, I used the Python KDE4 bindings. That was really nice. I could pass most stuff directly in the constructor and didn’t have to call gazillions of setters improving the experience significantly. If I ever wanted to do GUI programming again, I’d definitely go that route. There are also great Qt bindings for Python if one wanted to avoid the KDE stuff on top. The vast majority I do for myself, though, is either CLI or maybe TUI. A few web shit things, but no GUIs anymore. :-)

“it is very easy to filter or ignore it” This is the interesting part for legacy clients, hehe

Joking aside, let’s see how it works in the wild!

@eapl.me@eapl.me I think the benefits do not outweigh the disadvantages. Clients would have to read and merge the information from 2 txt and a new metadata would have to be added with the address of this file.
Also, it is very easy to filter or ignore it.

well, I assume by syntax you mean Gemtext (which I like a lot, my personal blog is built on top of it), so I think it might work for twtxt clients…

I knew of twtxt in Gemini Antenna, so at least the 2017 spec might work on that protocol. I think the main issue with extensions is that they weren’t designed with many URLs and protocols in mind.

Also I have to admit that the Gemini community significantly reduced in the last few years. I don’t know how worth it is to add support for Gemini now.

I have applied your comments, and I tried to add you as an editor but couldn’t find your email address. Please request editing access if you wish.

Also, could you elaborate on how you envision migrating with a script? You mean that the client of the file owner could massively update URLs in old twts ?

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev Can you reproduce any of this outside of your client? I can’t spot a mistake here:

$ curl -sI 'http://movq.de/v/8684c7d264/.html%2Dindex%2Dthumb%2Dgimp11%2D1.png.jpg'
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Connection: keep-alive
Content-Length: 2615
Content-Type: image/jpeg
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2025 19:53:17 GMT
Last-Modified: Wed, 19 Mar 2025 17:34:08 GMT
Server: OpenBSD httpd

$ curl -sI 'https://movq.de/v/8684c7d264/gimp11%2D1.png'
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Connection: keep-alive
Content-Length: 131798
Content-Type: image/png
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2025 19:53:19 GMT
Last-Modified: Wed, 19 Mar 2025 17:18:07 GMT
Server: OpenBSD httpd

$ telnet movq.de 80
Trying 185.162.249.140...
Connected to movq.de.
Escape character is '^]'.
HEAD /v/8684c7d264/.html%2Dindex%2Dthumb%2Dgimp11%2D1.png.jpg HTTP/1.1
Host: movq.de
Connection: close

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Connection: close
Content-Length: 2615
Content-Type: image/jpeg
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2025 19:53:31 GMT
Last-Modified: Wed, 19 Mar 2025 17:34:08 GMT
Server: OpenBSD httpd

Connection closed by foreign host.
$ 

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev your client is breaking things, I am afraid. This hash (ptxsca), which you seem to be using to reply to @movq@www.uninformativ.de is not the right one.

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev Hm, looks correct to me. The image to be displayed is a thumbnail and this links to the full-sized image. The thumbnail (JPG) is auto-generated from the full image (PNG), hence the two extensions.

What does look strange, though, is that your client came up with the hash pqsmcka, while it should have been te5quba. 🤔

@prologic@twtxt.net Can we add a table in twtxt.dev with features of each client?

• Is active?
  
• Extensions compatibility
  
• Language
  
• Multiaccount.
  
• Mutiuser
  And so on…

@movq@www.uninformativ.de The urls of the images are strange! My client crashes to display them, and when I tried some urls, I found a redirect. Ah! And the images had two extensions.

@eapl.me@eapl.me Good job! I have added these comments:

1. It is only long for humans. Clients can only leave a hyperlink.
   
2. The nickname is just a decoration, only the date that acts as the id and the URL matter. The nick is used for humans reading the feed.
   
3. It can be migrated with a script, if the feed exists.

i have got to try the jenny yarn client it looks so fun and old school……..

well… it has been an opportunity to build an artisanal microblogging client on top of a minimalist protocol. I agree on the hacker toy part.

And of course it’s about being part of a niche community which is (mostly) amazing, and nurturing. As there is almost no one writing in my native spanish, it has been an interesting challenge to share my thoughts in english, as well.

I couldn’t say it’s a ‘social network’ per se, I think it lack many engagement things usually associated with social networks, although it has a social part of igniting discussions, learnings and behavioral changes, which is the meaning of social for me.

Are there any clients to read gemini?

I have released new updates to the twtxt.el client.

• New feature: Notifications.
  
• Updated: Improved user interface for new posts.
  
• Updated: Documentation.
  
• Updated: Some UI elements and included information about shortcuts in each buffer.
  
• Minor fixes.
  Source code: https://codeberg.org/deadblackclover/twtxt-el
  In the next version: You will be able to send direct messages.
  Enjoy!
  #emacs #twtxt #twtxtel

ah! those german calendars. Somehow I was thinking of something like mine, with spaces to write inside each day.

I worked for a german company and they gave away these calendars to our clients and team every year, but the model you can hang on the wall. Memory unlocked!

@prologic@twtxt.net If it develops, and I’m not saying it will happen soon, perhaps Yarn could be connected as an additional node. Implementation would not be difficult for any client or software. It will not only be a backup of twtxt, but it will be the source for search, discovery and network health.

pls elaborate on a ‘p2p database’, ‘all story’ and ‘Registries’.

My first thought takes me to something like secure-scuttlebutt which it’s painful to sync data using clients, and too slow compared to downloading a text file.

Also I’d like for twtxt to avoid becoming an ActivityPub. Works well but it’s uses too many resources IMO.
https://kingant.net/2025/02/mastodon-the-cost-of-running-my-own-server/

I’m defending being able to self-host your Web client (like you’d do with a Wordpress, twtxt is a micrologging, at the end), instead of federated instances, so in a first thought I’d say Registries have many disadvantages being the first one that someone has to maintain them active.

@prologic@twtxt.net make server actually because i don’t need the client on my server, also i run make deps before just in case lol

You can find the #twtxt-el channel in Libera IRC to talk about the twtxt.el client, I will keep my connection open so you can ask me questions. Thank you!

Hacer software código opensource es desafiante y paulatinamente desgasta a su autor. Todo comienza con pasión y entusiasmo, por supuesto. Si logras repercusión, te enfrentas a una carrera de fondo que muchos terminan abandonando por las demandas constantes de usuarios que, a menudo, no valoran el trabajo ni contribuyen de manera significativa. Por mencionar un caso reciente: Hector Martin. Líder del proyecto Asahi Linux, quien dedicó años a adaptar Linux para los procesadores Apple Silicon, un logro técnico impresionante. Sin embargo, terminó renunciando debido a la presión de usuarios que exigían soporte y mejoras como si fueran clientes pagos.

La mayoría de los mantenedores no reciben ningún soporte económico. Solo unos pocos proyectos logran sostenibilidad financiera a través de patrocinios, mientras que la mayoría de los desarrolladores terminan con un segundo empleo no remunerado.

Sin un cambio en la forma en que se valora y apoya los proyectos Opensource, y no solo hablo de las grandes empresas multimillonarias. Sería una perdida para todos si acabaremos con un ecosistema de software archivado y abandonado.

Ahora te paso la pelota a ti, ¿cuando fue la última vez que apoyaste a un mantenedor de software opensource?

#opensource #software #sostenibilidad

I have released new updates to the twtxt.el client.

• New feature: View and interact with threads.
  
• Optimisation of ordering for long feeds.
  
• Minor fixes.
  

In the next version you will be able to see all your mentions.

Enjoy!

#emacs #twtxt #twtxtel

Video

@prologic@twtxt.net Damn! :-( Yeah, I won’t build that into my client. Not worth it for the many things that are still undetectable and the low frequency it happens.

looks good to me!

About alice’s hash, using SHA256, I get 96473b4f or 96473B4F for the last 8 characters. I’ll add it as an implementation example.
The idea of including it besides the follow URL is to avoid calculating it every time we load the file (assuming the client did that correctly), and helps to track replies across the file with a simple search.

Also, watching your example I’m thinking now that instead of {url=96473B4F,id=1} which is ambiguous of which URL we are referring to, it could be something like:
{reply_to=[URL_HASH]_[TWT_ID]} / {reply_to=96473B4F_1}
That way, the ‘full twt ID’ could be 96473B4F_1.

Hey everyone!

About the idea of improving the “thread” extension, what if we set aside March 2025 to gather proposals and thoughts from everyone? We could then vote on them at the end of the month to see if the change and migration are worth it.

The voting could include client maintainers (and maybe even users too). That way, we get a good mix of perspectives before taking a decision in a decent timelapse.

What do you think? If this sounds good, we can start agreeing on this. Let me know your thoughts!

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Clients could detest edits 🤞

@bmallred@staystrong.run I forgot one more effect of edits. If clients remember the read status of massages by hash, an edit will mark the updated message as unread again. To some degree that is even the right behavior, because the message was updated, so the user might want to have a look at the updated version. On the other hand, if it’s just a small typo fix, it’s maybe not worth to tell the user about. But the client doesn’t know, at least not with additional logic.

Having said that, it appears that this only affects me personally, noone else. I don’t know of any other client that saves read statuses. But don’t worry about me, all good. Just keep doing what you’ve done so far. I wanted to mention that only for the sake of completeness. :-)

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev I don’t see a burst of new twtxt clients popping up. Yeah, the most recent ones are TwtxtReader and twtxt-el. Did I miss one? I agree with @david@collantes.us, looks normal to me. :-)

I’m also working on my rewrite at the moment, but that started… *looking at the git history*… oh wow! O_o Over two years ago! I just implemented jumping to the next/previous unread message.

working on my bookmarks tool, I found out that http(s)://domain.tls is not a valid resource, but http(s)://domain.tls/ is, as you can see here: https://stackoverflow.com/a/2581423

I suppose that internally the wget/curl or whatever client you are using is redirecting it?

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev, I am getting:

Feed was redirected: https://twtxt.andros.dev -> https://twtxt.andros.dev/

Each time my client fetches your feed. It just doesn’t make any sense to me. Wouldn’t be both, pretty much, be the same (I noticed the /, yes)?

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev I wouldn’t call it regular, but cyclical. Since, with the exception of Yarn (maybe?), clients are everything when it comes to twtxt, every now and then we see an increase of interest on new development. I have seeing them come and go, only few “beside remains”. :-)